Cushing's Disease/Syndrome | Electronic Forum Digest 9

CUSHINGS-PETS Digest 9

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) Terrible Ted
by "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
2) Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
3) Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
4) Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
5) Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
6) Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by "Janice Glosson" <jglosson@genevaonline.com>
7) Intro
by marc@mnsinc.com
8) Farewell
by Wendy & Brian Duggan <kyzylkum@cruzio.com>
9) Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by Smedes/Mason <76255.1470@compuserve.com>
10) Farewell
by Smedes/Mason <76255.1470@compuserve.com>
11) Re: Farewell
by kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
12) re: Farewell
by EKAPLAN@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU
13) Re: Farewell
by Ruthann Peterson <rppete@execpc.com>
14) Re: Farewell
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
15) Re: Farewell
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
16) Sorry
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
17) Farewell
by "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
18) Cushing's and Drenamin
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
19) Lysodren
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
20) Re: Lysodren
by "scott" <scott@adams.net>
21) Re: Lysodren
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
22) Re: Lysodren
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
23) reaction guaranteed??
by "scott" <scott@adams.net>
24) Cushings-Keeshond/Dusty
by "Art Heapy" <heapyr@cadvision.com>

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:18:14 -0800
From: "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Terrible Ted
Message-ID: <0d13c37202011b7UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com>

The tests on Ted came back inconclusive. The recommendation is that we try
them again in a month's time. In the meantime I had to collect a urine
sample from Ted for the lab. I was only moderately sucessful as Ted is
pretty close to the ground and I'm six feet and 200 lbs. My neighbours must
have got a laugh seeing me chasing a Yorkie around the park, crouched over
with a 35mm film cannister in my hand. However, the small quantity that I
managed to get had traces of blood in it so Ted is in the clinic waiting for
a sample to be taken. Last night he was quite distressed in his breathing
and it needed an hour or so of comforting before he returned to 'normal'. I
would like to see some form of treatment undertaken as soon as possible,
rather than wait a month and allow the disease to get a month's worth of
grip on Ted. Both my wife and I are concerned.
Regards to all,
Dave ROBERTS

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:51:40 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <3470CA7C.D19FDCF4@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My 6 y.o. male Lab/Ret mix was recently diagnosed with pituitary related
Cushing's this past May. In May he was placed on Anipryl 45 mgs.
daily. His specific gravity was being checked on a monthly basis as was
he by my Vet. It had gone up after one month. The next month's check
up his specific gravity went down and he was therefore placed on 90 mgs.
of Anipryl with absolutely no results. In fact, his water intake
increased and he became bloated again. He was then put back on 45 mgs
and it is like I got my puppy back. I can't keep up with him. He is
also starting to get hair regrowth. But his specific gravity in his
urine testing is still low.
My Vet wants to now start him on Lysodren and I am scared to death of
it. I have heard of some of the side effects, one being diarrhea and
unfortunately my dog also has colitis. I just feel that we are not
giving the Anipryl enough time to work? Is a low specific gravity in
some dogs normal? At the moment I am so confused and would appreciate
talking with someone who is knowledgeable of the use of Lysodren. I
felt like my world fell apart the day he was diagnosed. In the area
that I live in, unfortunately Cushing's has not been dealt with very
much and I feel like I'm on my own.

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:32:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.971117162123.1405A-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

My vet is not even testing Ebony's urine! Is this a regular procedure for
Cushing's patients? She probably has very dilute urine considering the
amount of water she drinks, but I was not even aprised of a need to keep
check on her specific gravity.

Just last evening she needed a shot of prednisone (sp?) to ease her
breathing. We are assuming the Anipryl is working slowly because a) she
is drinking a bit less, and b) her chronic lung problems are getting a bit
worse (or seem to be). The vet said the high levels of cortisone in her
blood as a result of the Cushings was making her breathing easier. Now
that her levels are, presumably, dropping she is having more trouble with
her breathing and actually needed a boost of cortisone (prednisone) last
night at the vet's. This is, he says, a *good* thing and is in fact what
we hoped for - her levels of cortisone are dropping. He was telling me
that he often sees dogs that present other health problems (and esp. cats
with kidney disease) once the Cushings starts to get under control.
Apparently this is because the high levels of cortisone in their blood
mask/treat the other problems. When the levels retreat the other health
problems show up more and often need to be treated where they might not
have before. So now we will be giving tiny doses of cortisone as needed
for breathing difficulty to a dog who is on a drug (Anipryl) to suppress
production of the self-same (cortisone). Weird huh? -blink-

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, L Boyce wrote:

> My 6 y.o. male Lab/Ret mix was recently diagnosed with pituitary related
> Cushing's this past May. In May he was placed on Anipryl 45 mgs.
> daily. His specific gravity was being checked on a monthly basis as was
> he by my Vet. It had gone up after one month. The next month's check
> up his specific gravity went down and he was therefore placed on 90 mgs.
> of Anipryl with absolutely no results. In fact, his water intake
> increased and he became bloated again. He was then put back on 45 mgs
> and it is like I got my puppy back. I can't keep up with him. He is
> also starting to get hair regrowth. But his specific gravity in his
> urine testing is still low.
> My Vet wants to now start him on Lysodren and I am scared to death of
> it. I have heard of some of the side effects, one being diarrhea and
> unfortunately my dog also has colitis. I just feel that we are not
> giving the Anipryl enough time to work? Is a low specific gravity in
> some dogs normal? At the moment I am so confused and would appreciate
> talking with someone who is knowledgeable of the use of Lysodren. I
> felt like my world fell apart the day he was diagnosed. In the area
> that I live in, unfortunately Cushing's has not been dealt with very
> much and I feel like I'm on my own.
>
>
>

--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses..~ B.Taupin/E.John

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:56:32 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <347111E1.9590E665@cynet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have to say that in Bo's case, he responded very quickly to Lysodren,
and his symptoms have been effectively controlled for several months now
with a low maintenance dose. When he was first "loaded" with Lysodren we
did have a scare. The loading involvedgiving a dose once or twice each
day for 10 or 12 days, as I recall. After the 7th day, he had a severe
reaction, vomiting, etc. It turned out his adrenal output had been
reduced too much. We had to take him off the Lysodren for two weeks,
give him prednisone for a while, than start again. I also had to go
through a smaller loading period again for there to be any effect. Then
he was put on 1/2 pill twice a week. I have since lowered it to once a
week. He is really like a new dog. All of his bloating, thirst and
ravenous hunger symptoms have gone. His "old" playful personality has
come back. He has slowed down some - just enough to keep out of trouble,
but he is also going on 12 years old. When we got the Lysodren dose down
right (after loading period 1/2 to 1 pill weekly for 40 pound dog) he
responded very quickly - within several days.

Judy

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:51:13 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <9711180851.ZM15916@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Ivan has been on Lysodren since August of 94. Diarrhea and other assorted
problems are typically related to high dosages or intense usage (the so-called
"investigative" or "kill back" period). Maintenance doses have not been a
problem. In fact, for us, diarrhea or other GI disorders haven't been a
problem at all.

I can't speak to specific gravity. Ivan produces some plenty concentrated
stuff, and our vet has no concerns about his kidney function at this point.

Good luck.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 19:18:47 -0600
From: "Janice Glosson" <jglosson@genevaonline.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <199711190121.TAA11502@kevin.genevaonline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi!

My 6 year old poodle has done holistic treatments for a year, then Anipryl
and is now on Lysodren for the past week. So far nothing has helped her.
Her cortisol levels go up and done like a yo-yo. According to my vet
Anipryl works in only about 80% of cases so we tried and it didn't work for
us. He has my dog on a low version of the startup dose. One/half pill
once a day for 7 days then one half every other day for 2 weeks. She weighs
21 pounds. The Anipryl did make her extremely smart. She is an Agility
dog and needs to think fast--well, while on the Anipryl she never failed at
a trial and never made a mistake on some very difficult courses. I had
hoped she could stay on the Anipryl!

Janice Glosson

----------
> From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
> To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> Subject: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
> Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 4:51 PM
>
> My 6 y.o. male Lab/Ret mix was recently diagnosed with pituitary related
> Cushing's this past May. In May he was placed on Anipryl 45 mgs.
> daily. His specific gravity was being checked on a monthly basis as was
> he by my Vet. It had gone up after one month. The next month's check
> up his specific gravity went down and he was therefore placed on 90 mgs.
> of Anipryl with absolutely no results. In fact, his water intake
> increased and he became bloated again. He was then put back on 45 mgs
> and it is like I got my puppy back. I can't keep up with him. He is
> also starting to get hair regrowth. But his specific gravity in his
> urine testing is still low.
> My Vet wants to now start him on Lysodren and I am scared to death of
> it. I have heard of some of the side effects, one being diarrhea and
> unfortunately my dog also has colitis. I just feel that we are not
> giving the Anipryl enough time to work? Is a low specific gravity in
> some dogs normal? At the moment I am so confused and would appreciate
> talking with someone who is knowledgeable of the use of Lysodren. I
> felt like my world fell apart the day he was diagnosed. In the area
> that I live in, unfortunately Cushing's has not been dealt with very
> much and I feel like I'm on my own.

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:52:47
From: marc@mnsinc.com
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Intro
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971118205247.211fde28@mailhost.mnsinc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi. I'm a new member of the list and like to introduce myself. My name is
Marc and I have an 11 year old beagle Dan. Dan was recently diagnosed as
having borderline Cushings. The ACTH tests were on the high end of normal.
He started showing symptoms (increased thirst, unrination, and appetite)
about 2 months ago. The vet getting some information on Anipryl together
for me to pick up tomorrow to look at. The vet mentioned about starting Dan
on Anipryl now to treat the symptoms instead of Lysodren. His reasoning was
that since there was not a definite diagnosis of Cushings, the Anipryl had
a less effect on the body. He didn't rule out the possibility of switching
at a later date. I plan on meeting with the vet on Thursday to discuss
Dan's course of treatment. If anyone has any information that may help when
I see the vet, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

Marc

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:33:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Wendy & Brian Duggan <kyzylkum@cruzio.com>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Farewell
Message-ID: <v01510100b0978c4050bb@[165.227.212.39]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'll be signing off the list shortly....Flyssa has gone to the Rainbow
Bridge. She'd been drinking more water lately, stressed while we were
packing to move, and bloated and had GDV (torsion). She survived the
surgery, but started in to strange neurological symptoms that, it was felt
in retrospect, were the result of her pituitary tumor enlarging and
breaking through to her brain....after a valiant battle, her heart stopped
48 hours after surgery.

The increased drinking etc. may well have been precipitated by the
enlargement of the tumour...but we'll never know, because we did not have a
necropsy done.

Ch. Kyzyl Kum Flyssa, 10/21/88 - 11/11/97

Best of luck to all of you....

Wendy

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:17:15 -0500
From: Smedes/Mason <76255.1470@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <199711190217_MC2-28BA-DEB0@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

L. Boyce (sorry, I can't see your first name in all the gobble-de-gook that
comes at the top of these messages)

There are several studies on Anipryl (l-Deprenyl) in treating pituitary
dependent Cushing's disease. In the dogs that showed clinical response,
not all dogs improved equally in all categories. In fact, many dogs showed
marked improvement in many things, but failed to show improved urinary
concentration. There are many possibilities for this, one being that there
may be another problem with the kidneys, totally separate from the
Cushing's, that interfers with the concentration of urine.

The ability to concentrate urine or not is not a very sensitive way to
assess response to therapy for Cushing's. Your veterinarian may wish to
repeat the original tests that were used to diagnose the disease in the
first place. In the studies done by the company that makes Anipryl, they
found that many dogs returned to normal on a "low dose dexamethasone
suppression test" after 6-8 weeks on Anipryl.

The greater question is, if MOST of the symptoms of Cushing's have
resolved, should you change treatment? Alternatively, if MOST of the
symptoms remain, why wouldn't you want to change treatments?

Best of luck.

R.A. Mason, BSc, DVM, DVSc, DABVP, DACVIM

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:17:08 -0500
From: Smedes/Mason <76255.1470@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Farewell
Message-ID: <199711190217_MC2-28BA-DEAD@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Wendy,

Very sorry to hear of your loss.

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 01:22:45 -0800 (PST)
From: kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Farewell
Message-ID: <199711190922.BAA00587@acme.csusb.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm so sorry. *hug*

At 08:33 PM 11/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I'll be signing off the list shortly....Flyssa has gone to the Rainbow
>Bridge. She'd been drinking more water lately, stressed while we were
>packing to move, and bloated and had GDV (torsion). She survived the
>surgery, but started in to strange neurological symptoms that, it was felt
>in retrospect, were the result of her pituitary tumor enlarging and
>breaking through to her brain....after a valiant battle, her heart stopped
>48 hours after surgery.
>
>The increased drinking etc. may well have been precipitated by the
>enlargement of the tumour...but we'll never know, because we did not have a
>necropsy done.
>
>Ch. Kyzyl Kum Flyssa, 10/21/88 - 11/11/97
>
>Best of luck to all of you....
>
>Wendy
>
>
>
>
--
>--------------------------------------------<
~Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!~ -dire straits
kilty@tstonramp.com or krichard@acme.csusb.edu kathleen richards

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 08:52:54 ECT
From: EKAPLAN@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: re: Farewell
Message-ID: <199711191356.HAA13035@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>

Wendy & Brian-

So very sorry to hear of your loss of Flyssa.
Our thoughts are with you ... you all put up
an extremely valiant fight.

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:56:34 -0600
From: Ruthann Peterson <rppete@execpc.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Farewell
Message-ID: <3472FE22.FDF37B57@execpc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My tears and sympathy to you on the loss of your dear friend Flyssa ... Try to
remember all of the licks and hugs and laughter you were able to share with her
-- Bless you -- Ruthann

Wendy & Brian Duggan wrote:

> I'll be signing off the list shortly....Flyssa has gone to the Rainbow
> Bridge. She'd been drinking more water lately, stressed while we were
> packing to move, and bloated and had GDV (torsion). She survived the
> surgery, but started in to strange neurological symptoms that, it was felt
> in retrospect, were the result of her pituitary tumor enlarging and
> breaking through to her brain....after a valiant battle, her heart stopped
> 48 hours after surgery.
>
> The increased drinking etc. may well have been precipitated by the
> enlargement of the tumour...but we'll never know, because we did not have a
> necropsy done.
>
> Ch. Kyzyl Kum Flyssa, 10/21/88 - 11/11/97
>
> Best of luck to all of you....
>
> Wendy

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:02:49 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Farewell
Message-ID: <9711190902.ZM3824@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Poor Flyssa. Wendy, you and I have cooresponded for years, since the early
days of rpd.health. She seemed like such a wonderful dog. Please know that
she is playing now, waiting for an eventual reunion.

She was much loved, and knew it well.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Never tell a man his kids are stupid, his dog is ugly or his wife is a babe.

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:58:06 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Farewell
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971119095806.006ca1ec@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Oh Wendy, my heart goes out to you. I know all too well how much it hurts
to lose a beloved animal friend, especially after you've tried so hard to
battle this illness. Flyssa was such a lucky dog to have had such a
devoted, vigilant owner--with you it seems she received the best care
possible!

I'm so sorry for the pain you must be feeling. Take heart that the pain is
so enormous because the love you gave to and received from Flyssa was so
enormous. I hope that you can find comfort in the warm memories of the
love you and she shared.

I also hope that you will lean on friends (both in-person and cyber!),
family, and your other precious pets while you grieve Flyssa. Be sure to
take all the time you need to grieve because, believe me, it takes longer
than you and people around you think it probably should. Two months after
the fact, the loss of Melissa is an ache I feel daily.

I'm so sad for you, but I have to hang on to the happy thought that perhaps
my sweet Melissa was there to greet Flyssa and the two will keep each other
company until we see them again.

If remaining on the cushing's list is too painful, I'll unsubscribe you.
Just let me know. I do hope you'll stay (or at least return after a
hiatus) because you are one of the group's foremost experts!

Do drop me a line personally if you ever need to talk. And again, I'm
very, very sorry.

-Leslie
lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:59:06 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Cc: siniard-rc@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil
Subject: Sorry
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971119195906.006d7318@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Wendy, Randy and I are very sorry for your loss, our hearts go out to you,
Flyssa will be seeing Sadie and I know that they are happy at the Rainbow
Bridge. We hope that you will stay in touch with all of us, we will always
be there for you, we still feel the loss of Sadie very much, not a day goes
by when you will not think of Flyssa as we think of Sadie, but know that she
is happy, and that she gave you wonderful, wonderful years of happiness that
no-one can take away from you. God Bless you. Jackie and Randy
Jacqueline P. Siniard
Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Materials Science Building Room C206
Huntsville, Alabama 35899
ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:08:58 -0800
From: "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Farewell
Message-ID: <093e340102013b7UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com>

Wendy & Brian
Deepest sympathy in your loss. Return to the group from time to time to give
us the benefit of you recovery.
May we all be united with our loved ones, human and animal , at the Rainbow
Bridge.
Eileen and Dave ROBERTS

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:19:25 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Cushing's and Drenamin
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971120111925.0068bc68@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The following message is from a soon-to-be subscriber to the Cushing's
forum. If any of you know anything about the supplement, please send a
response directly to Helen <WIMER.HELEN@NMNH.SI.EDU> and to the Cushing's
group as well <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>.

-Leslie

>Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:16:24 -0500
>From: Helen Wimer <WIMER.HELEN@NMNH.SI.EDU>
>To: lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu
>Subject: Cushing"s and Drenamin
>Content-Disposition: inline
>
>Hi Leslie, I have been reading your forum about Cushing's Disease and
>will subscribe to my other email account but I was wondering if you have
>ever heard of treating a Cushinoid dog with a food supplement named
>"Drenamin"? I take my dog to a Holistic Vet in Maryland and this is what
>they recommended. It does seem to help the symptoms.
>

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:31:36 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Lysodren
Message-ID: <34760BC7.DC76FE55@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My almost 6 y.o. Lab/Ret mix has been on Anipryl for six months with no
results. After urine and blood work up again, he is being placed on
Lysodren therapy. During the "loading" phase, is a reaction almost a
guarantee? I understand that Prednisone is given sometimes to help
during this phase. My dog was given 2.5 mgs of Prednisone for his
allergies when he weighed 90 lbs. and had a reaction. This is confusing
to me as I do not understand why he would react. Anyone have any ideas?

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:15:26 -0600
From: "scott" <scott@adams.net>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Lysodren
Message-ID: <199711220015.SAA09405@golden.adams.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCF6B1.D2A982E0"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BCF6B1.D2A982E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For what it is worth my 95 lb lab is half way through his loading phase,
and so far no negative reactions... he is being fed 3 times a day with the
dose being divived between those meals.. No predasone needed yet knock on
wood

----------
> From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
> To: Cushing's e-mail <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
> Subject: Lysodren
> Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 4:31 PM
>
> My almost 6 y.o. Lab/Ret mix has been on Anipryl for six months with no
> results. After urine and blood work up again, he is being placed on
> Lysodren therapy. During the "loading" phase, is a reaction almost a
> guarantee? I understand that Prednisone is given sometimes to help
> during this phase. My dog was given 2.5 mgs of Prednisone for his
> allergies when he weighed 90 lbs. and had a reaction. This is confusing
> to me as I do not understand why he would react. Anyone have any ideas?
>
------=_NextPart_000_01BCF6B1.D2A982E0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">For what it is worth my 95 lb lab is =
half way through his loading phase, and so far no negative reactions... =
he is being fed 3 times a day with the dose being divived between those =
meals.. No predasone needed yet  knock on wood ---------- > From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net> > To: Cushing's e-mail <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu> > Subject: Lysodren > Date: Friday, =
November 21, 1997 4:31 PM > > My almost 6 y.o. Lab/Ret mix =
has been on Anipryl for six months with no > results.  After =
urine and blood work up again, he is being placed on > Lysodren =
therapy.  During the "loading" phase, is a reaction =
almost a > guarantee?  I understand that Prednisone is given =
sometimes to help > during this phase.  My dog was given 2.5 =
mgs of Prednisone for his > allergies when he weighed 90 lbs. and =
had a reaction.  This is confusing > to me as I do not =
understand why he would react.  Anyone have any ideas? > 
</body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BCF6B1.D2A982E0--

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:18:58 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Lysodren
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971121181858.0077eebc@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

L Boyce and others:

I'll have to dig out the text our vet gave us, but as I recall off the top
of my head, a response to the Lysodren loading phase is almost always
guaranteed if 1) the dog really does have pituitary Cushing's and 2) the
owner is really giving the dog the pills [remember, this is from the
article and not my own smart-aleck response]. As I understand it, it's
more likely that dogs *over respond*, that is, developing Addisonian symptoms.

We did have to give our Melissa prednisone at several points during her
Lysodren treatment as she became quite anorexic, got diarreah, become very
dehydrated and was lethargic (signs of the Lysodren having gone too far,
apparently). But, she never had a bad reaction to the prednisone. Quite
the contrary, she always seemed to do very well after being given it. The
other thing that *really* helped Melissa out while we were trying to get
her dosage right was frequent subcutaneous fluids ~2x/week to keep her
hydrated. I always found that odd--she was drinking like crazy, but still
wasn't able to stay hydrated!

Speaking of prednisone:
Have any of y'all heard of any link between previous long-term exposure to
prednisone and Cushings later in life? On the advice of one of Melissa's
vet, we gave her regular doses of Pred (2.5 mg, sometimes as often as
daily) for her allergies for *many* years. I'm wondering if such regular
dosing perhaps conditioned her body to having lots of cortisone in her
system and if perhaps when we stopped giving it to her her body tried to
compensate. Just an off-the-top of my head hypothesis...

-Leslie
[If I've got any of my information wrong, someone please step in *quickly*
and set the record straight!]

At 06:31 PM 11/21/97 -0400, L Boyce wrote:
>My almost 6 y.o. Lab/Ret mix has been on Anipryl for six months with no
>results. After urine and blood work up again, he is being placed on
>Lysodren therapy. During the "loading" phase, is a reaction almost a
>guarantee? I understand that Prednisone is given sometimes to help
>during this phase. My dog was given 2.5 mgs of Prednisone for his
>allergies when he weighed 90 lbs. and had a reaction. This is confusing
>to me as I do not understand why he would react. Anyone have any ideas?

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:21:01 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Lysodren
Message-ID: <3476175D.C86B5BB2@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------69CCFF6A0050285A120B6EAE"

--------------69CCFF6A0050285A120B6EAE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

scott wrote:

> For what it is worth my 95 lb lab is half way through his loading
> phase, and so far no negative reactions... he is being fed 3 times a
> day with the dose being divived between those meals.. No predasone
> needed yet knock on wood
>
> ----------
> > From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
> > To: Cushing's e-mail <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
> > Subject: Lysodren
> > Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 4:31 PM
> >
> > My almost 6 y.o. Lab/Ret mix has been on Anipryl for six months with
> no
> > results. After urine and blood work up again, he is being placed on
>
> > Lysodren therapy. During the "loading" phase, is a reaction almost
> a
> > guarantee? I understand that Prednisone is given sometimes to help
> > during this phase. My dog was given 2.5 mgs of Prednisone for his
> > allergies when he weighed 90 lbs. and had a reaction. This is
> confusing
> > to me as I do not understand why he would react. Anyone have any
> ideas?
> >

Hi Scott!
How much is your dog receiving daily during his "loading" phase? My
Vet said my dog would have to get 2,000 mgs. a day. I nearly fainted!
Seems like so much! Are you feeding a special diet or regular food?

--------------69CCFF6A0050285A120B6EAE
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

scott wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>For
what it is worth my 95 lb lab is half way through his loading phase, and
so far no negative reactions... he is being fed 3 times a day with the
dose being divived between those meals.. No predasone needed yet 
knock on wood

----------
 > From: L Boyce
<lboyce@warwick.net>
 > To: Cushing's
e-mail <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
 > Subject: Lysodren
 > Date: Friday,
November 21, 1997 4:31 PM
 >
 > My almost
6 y.o. Lab/Ret mix has been on Anipryl for six months with no
 > results. 
After urine and blood work up again, he is being placed on
 > Lysodren therapy. 
During the "loading" phase, is a reaction almost a
 > guarantee? 
I understand that Prednisone is given sometimes to help
 > during this
phase.  My dog was given 2.5 mgs of Prednisone for his
 > allergies
when he weighed 90 lbs. and had a reaction.  This is confusing
 > to me as I
do not understand why he would react.  Anyone have any ideas?
 ></BLOCKQUOTE>
 Hi Scott!
     How
much is your dog receiving daily during his "loading" phase?  My Vet
said my dog would have to get 2,000 mgs. a day.  I nearly fainted! 
Seems like so much!  Are you feeding a special diet or regular food?
</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------69CCFF6A0050285A120B6EAE--

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:22:10 -0600
From: "scott" <scott@adams.net>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: reaction guaranteed??
Message-ID: <199711220221.UAA19743@golden.adams.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCF6C3.86ED8560"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BCF6C3.86ED8560
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Your note is a little scary... My lab has not had any reaction yet.. in day
4, My vet has commented that pituitary cushings is rare in a big dog, but
he was given a differential test which indicated pituitary, so ??? now
what..
----------
> From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
> To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> Subject: Re: Lysodren
> Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 6:18 PM
>
> L Boyce and others:
>
> I'll have to dig out the text our vet gave us, but as I recall off the
top
> of my head, a response to the Lysodren loading phase is almost always
> guaranteed if 1) the dog really does have pituitary Cushing's and 2) the
> owner is really giving the dog the pills [remember, this is from the
> article and not my own smart-aleck response]. As I understand it, it's
> more likely that dogs *over respond*, that is, developing Addisonian
symptoms.
>
> We did have to give our Melissa prednisone at several points during her
> Lysodren treatment as she became quite anorexic, got diarreah, become
very
> dehydrated and was lethargic (signs of the Lysodren having gone too far,
> apparently). But, she never had a bad reaction to the prednisone. Quite
> the contrary, she always seemed to do very well after being given it.
The
> other thing that *really* helped Melissa out while we were trying to get
> her dosage right was frequent subcutaneous fluids ~2x/week to keep her
> hydrated. I always found that odd--she was drinking like crazy, but
still
> wasn't able to stay hydrated!
>
> Speaking of prednisone:
> Have any of y'all heard of any link between previous long-term exposure
to
> prednisone and Cushings later in life? On the advice of one of Melissa's
> vet, we gave her regular doses of Pred (2.5 mg, sometimes as often as
> daily) for her allergies for *many* years. I'm wondering if such regular
> dosing perhaps conditioned her body to having lots of cortisone in her
> system and if perhaps when we stopped giving it to her her body tried to
> compensate. Just an off-the-top of my head hypothesis...
>
> -Leslie
> [If I've got any of my information wrong, someone please step in
*quickly*
> and set the record straight!]
>
> At 06:31 PM 11/21/97 -0400, L Boyce wrote:
> >My almost 6 y.o. Lab/Ret mix has been on Anipryl for six months with no
> >results. After urine and blood work up again, he is being placed on
> >Lysodren therapy. During the "loading" phase, is a reaction almost a
> >guarantee? I understand that Prednisone is given sometimes to help
> >during this phase. My dog was given 2.5 mgs of Prednisone for his
> >allergies when he weighed 90 lbs. and had a reaction. This is confusing
> >to me as I do not understand why he would react. Anyone have any ideas?
> >
> >
------=_NextPart_000_01BCF6C3.86ED8560
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> Your note is a little scary... My =
lab has not had any reaction yet.. in day 4, My vet has commented that =
pituitary cushings is rare in a big dog, but he was given a differential =
test which indicated pituitary, so ??? now what.. ---------- > From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu> > To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu > Subject: Re: Lysodren > Date: Friday, =
November 21, 1997 6:18 PM > > L Boyce and others: > =
 > I'll have to dig out the text our vet gave us, but as I recall =
off the top > of my head, a response to the Lysodren loading phase =
is almost always > guaranteed if 1) the dog really does have =
pituitary Cushing's and 2) the > owner is really giving the dog =
the pills [remember, this is from the > article and not my own =
smart-aleck response].  As I understand it, it's > more =
likely that dogs *over respond*, that is, developing Addisonian =
symptoms. > > We did have to give our Melissa prednisone at =
several points during her > Lysodren treatment as she became quite =
anorexic, got diarreah, become very > dehydrated and was lethargic =
(signs of the Lysodren having gone too far, > apparently). =
 But, she never had a bad reaction to the prednisone. =
 Quite > the contrary, she always seemed to do very well =
after being given it.  The > other thing that *really* helped =
Melissa out while we were trying to get > her dosage right was =
frequent subcutaneous fluids ~2x/week to keep her > hydrated. =
 I always found that odd--she was drinking like crazy, but =
still > wasn't able to stay hydrated! > > Speaking of =
prednisone: > Have any of y'all heard of any link between previous =
long-term exposure to > prednisone and Cushings later in life? =
 On the advice of one of Melissa's > vet, we gave her regular =
doses of Pred (2.5 mg, sometimes as often as > daily) for her =
allergies for *many* years.  I'm wondering if such regular > =
dosing perhaps conditioned her body to having lots of cortisone in =
her > system and if perhaps when we stopped giving it to her her =
body tried to > compensate.  Just an off-the-top of my head =
hypothesis... > > -Leslie > [If I've got any of my =
information wrong, someone please step in *quickly* > and set the =
record straight!] > > At 06:31 PM 11/21/97 -0400, L Boyce =
wrote: > >My almost 6 y.o. Lab/Ret mix has been on Anipryl for =
six months with no > >results.  After urine and blood work =
up again, he is being placed on > >Lysodren therapy. =
 During the "loading" phase, is a reaction almost =
a > >guarantee?  I understand that Prednisone is given =
sometimes to help > >during this phase.  My dog was given =
2.5 mgs of Prednisone for his > >allergies when he weighed 90 =
lbs. and had a reaction.  This is confusing > >to me as I =
do not understand why he would react.  Anyone have any =
ideas? > > > >
</body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BCF6C3.86ED8560--

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:13:10 -0500
From: "Art Heapy" <heapyr@cadvision.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Cushings-Keeshond/Dusty
Message-ID: <199711220313.UAA139714@huey.cadvision.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

This is my first time using "newsgroups/mailing lists" on the internet.
Hope I'm doing this right.

I would like to begin by thanking all of you who sent me information on
Cushings. I can't believe what's out there!

The Vet that we have been going to has not positively diagnosed our dog's
(Dusty) problem as Cushings. He suggests that Dusty take one more rather
expensive test which will positively diagnose Cushings disease. Results
of the last test were that she was anemic and her white
blood cells were very high, higher than a previous blood test. She also
had
X Rays on her lungs and heart, everything was okay.
This new test is with a steroid called dexamethsone. I guess my question
is threefold:

1) Are there side effects associated with this test?;
2) Given the fact that Dusty has many of the Cushing's symptoms, is it in
your opinions necessary for her to take the test?and,
3) If she doesn't have Cushing's, what else could it be?
Her symtoms are a dry cough, there was excessive panting for a few
days,sleeps a lot, loss of appetite, dribling (she has been on Stilbestrol
for one and a half years because of her dribling), nervous trembling from
time to time, lumps on her body, and is no longer
interested in taking walks.

I had thought of treating her by trying herb Milk Thistle capsules along
with "people" food, which she still seems to enjoy, and hope for the best.
She is 12 and a half years old, and up till recently , has had a happy and
relatively healthy life.

Through the years she has been on "predesone" for allergies but not during
the
past 2 or 3 years. She is also on Anafen for arthritis, which I cut down
to half the required dosage when I see she needs it.

Your comments would be much appreciated

Regards
Sandy