CUSHINGS-PETS Digest 10
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Long Term Pred & Cushings (was: Re: Lysodren)
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
2) Prednisone
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
3) Re: Prednisone
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
4) Terrible Ted ROBERTS
by "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
5) Re: Terrible Ted ROBERTS
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
6) Prednisone (cortisone)
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
7) Re: Prednisone (cortisone)
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
8) Lysodren "Loading" Phase
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
9) Re: Lysodren "Loading" Phase
by Katerpoo@aol.com
10) Drenamin
by HelenFW@aol.com
11) Re: Drenamin
by "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
12) Re: Drenamin
by HelenFW@aol.com
13) Re: Drenamin
by LynneYoung@aol.com
14) Re: Drenamin
by HelenFW@aol.com
15) Re. Dremamin
by "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:05:35 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Long Term Pred & Cushings (was: Re: Lysodren)
Message-ID: <9711240905.ZM19500@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Our previous vet (who first diagnosed Ivan) was concerned that a long
term run
with Prednisone to treat what at the time seemed to be a flea allergy might
have contributed. He said that his views of vet medicine had changed as
he
learned more and he wished he could change some old decisions. I don't
blame
him in the least, but that's at least one view of the world.
We brought 6wk old Ivan, his loving sister Molly and brother Pete (who
still
lives with Carol's parents) home 14 years ago tomorrow.
--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Never tell a man his kids are stupid, his dog is ugly or his wife is a babe.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:20:54 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Cc: siniard-rc@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil
Subject: Prednisone
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971125222054.006d7570@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have been reading several e-mails recently about the possibility that
prednisone could cause "Cushings Disease" and I wanted to share
with all of
you that Sunny was on Prednisone Eye drops for over 6 months and I was
wondering if that could have caused her Cushings, and to hear that some
of
you are wondering the same thing, makes you wonder does'nt it. Sunny is
not
doing to well on the Lysodren, her last blood work last week showed an
increase in her ACTH and her doctor was very distressed to know that, Sunny
has also gained alot of weight, for a Manchester Chihuahua she should weigh
around 12 lbs she is now up to nearly 21lbs, and she is on a diet, we feed
her Canine WD, but bless her heart the weight just keeps on coming, does
anyone have any suggestions for her. Jackie and Randy, e-mail
siniardj@email.uah.edu.
Hugs and kisses to all of the babies out there, know that we love all of
you.
Jacqueline P. Siniard
Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Materials Science Building Room C206
Huntsville, Alabama 35899
ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:48:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Prednisone
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.971125154301.12986A-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I am not a vet, but I do not see how Prednisone (esp. in eyedrop form)
could have caused Cushings. Cushings is related to the body
producing/maintaining high levels of cortisone, and my understanding is
that Prednisone is cortisone. Thus, it would seem to me, using Prednisone
to put more cortisone into the body would encourage the body to make
*less*, not more. Topically introduced cortisone (as in eyedrops) would
seem likely to get into an animal's blood system in even smaller
quantities, and thus be even less likely to have an overall effect. As I
said, I am not a vet, merely the owner of a dog with Cushings, and a
person who has been reading everything she can get her eyes on about the
disease.
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Jackie Siniard wrote:
> I have been reading several e-mails recently about the possibility
that
> prednisone could cause "Cushings Disease" and I wanted to
share with all of
> you that Sunny was on Prednisone Eye drops for over 6 months and I
was
> wondering if that could have caused her Cushings, and to hear that
some of
> you are wondering the same thing, makes you wonder does'nt it. Sunny
is not
> doing to well on the Lysodren, her last blood work last week showed
an
> increase in her ACTH and her doctor was very distressed to know that,
Sunny
> has also gained alot of weight, for a Manchester Chihuahua she should
weigh
> around 12 lbs she is now up to nearly 21lbs, and she is on a diet,
we feed
> her Canine WD, but bless her heart the weight just keeps on coming,
does
> anyone have any suggestions for her. Jackie and Randy, e-mail
> siniardj@email.uah.edu.
--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:49:12 -0800
From: "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Terrible Ted ROBERTS
Message-ID: <0245f4148011ab7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com>
Terrible Ted has been diagnosed as having Cushing's disease. A ACTH
Response test was positive and I have his first dosage of Anipryl, 5 mg.
He
is also going in for an ultrasound to see if the cause is adrenal as his
dex
suppression test was inconclusive. If that is negative then I guess he is
diagnosed as a pituitary case by default.
In any case we are almost relieved that we have a positive cause for
his
condition/s. the strange thing is that, since we have been involved in the
testing, he has improved. His breating is not so sterterous and he seems
more lively. We have been giving him glucosamine sulfate on a daily basis
by
halving a 500mg. capsule and picking it up with a sliced apple (which Ted
loves). His limp, from the cruciated ligament has disappeared and he is
able
to waddle as he did before. Today he voluntarily did his old course of about
a half mile with no sign of fatigue or physical stress.
We are feeling upbeat about his condition and I think this is
communicating itself to him. With all the fuss and treatment he certainly
knows that he is loved.
We will keep you all posted on his progress, jhopefully to a condition
where his Cushing's has almost no effect on his quality of life.
Dave & Eileen ROBERTS
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:39:35 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Terrible Ted ROBERTS
Message-ID: <9711260839.ZM10073@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Allthough the diagnosis seems terrible, it's always better (at least
it has
been for us) to know and treat. We spent over a year trying everything
before
Ivan was finally diagnosed (not the vet's fault, it really is a rare disorder,
regradless of what it feels like to us!).
Good luck to him and to you. And a happy Thanksgiving to everybody,
with
turkey and gravy to all the good boys and girls.
--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Never tell a man his kids are stupid, his dog is ugly or his wife is a babe.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:13:27 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Prednisone (cortisone)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971126161327.006d283c@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kathleen Richards, we were very upset with your e-mail in regard to
Prednisone, you seem to have gotten the wrong message from me, please read
it again and read the reply that my husband has written.
>Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:02:29 -0600
>From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
>Subject: Prednisone (cortisone)
>To: siniardj@email.uah.edu
>
> We would like to say that we too are owners of a dog with Cushings
and
> read everything we can get our eyes on about the disease. That
is why
> we brought up the question about the addition of prednisone to
the
> body over lengthy periods could trigger the body when the additional
> dosing of prednisone is taken away. It is not the actual addition
of
> prednisone that may be causing the Cushings, but when the cortisone
is
> removed that triggers the body to begin production of more cortisone
> to replace the additions which have been removed. The body could
> produce too much cortisone, because the cortisone (in the form
of
> prednisone) had been removed and the body's systems felt that this
> removal was depleting the body of needed cortisone.
>
> We are not vets, nor do we profess to know alot about this disease.
> However, the logical process stated above happens in other events,
> such as the body producing fat because it feels it needs it to
stay
> alive, even though it is not really needed.
>
> Randy and Jackie Siniard
>
>
Jacqueline P. Siniard
Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Materials Science Building Room C206
Huntsville, Alabama 35899
ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:34:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Prednisone (cortisone)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.971126112002.14613A-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I was not replying to this particular letter (in fact, I hadn't seen
this
letter). I was stating my opinion in response to the letter about
eyedrops. However as I said, I am not a vet and my opinion is certainly
not of any more weight than anyone else's. I was spouting my thoughts and
certainly did not intend to upset anyone. As I said, I have only just
started learning about Cushings, so my opinions are certainly not any
weightier than anyone else's. Your scenario seems as logical as mine, now
that I have read it. Perhaps there is someone doing research into this?
I apologize for upsetting you. It wasn't my intention. If something
I
said offended you personally, perhaps you would email me about it. Thank
you.
krichard@acme.csusb.edu
Happy Thanksgiving to all....
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Jackie Siniard wrote:
> Kathleen Richards, we were very upset with your e-mail in regard
to
> Prednisone, you seem to have gotten the wrong message from me, please
read
> it again and read the reply that my husband has written.
>
> >Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:02:29 -0600
> >From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
> >Subject: Prednisone (cortisone)
> >To: siniardj@email.uah.edu
> >
> > We would like to say that we too are owners of a dog with
Cushings and
> > read everything we can get our eyes on about the disease.
That is why
> > we brought up the question about the addition of prednisone
to the
> > body over lengthy periods could trigger the body when the
additional
> > dosing of prednisone is taken away. It is not the actual
addition of
> > prednisone that may be causing the Cushings, but when the
cortisone is
> > removed that triggers the body to begin production of more
cortisone
> > to replace the additions which have been removed. The body
could
> > produce too much cortisone, because the cortisone (in the
form of
> > prednisone) had been removed and the body's systems felt that
this
> > removal was depleting the body of needed cortisone.
> >
> > We are not vets, nor do we profess to know alot about this
disease.
> > However, the logical process stated above happens in other
events,
> > such as the body producing fat because it feels it needs it
to stay
> > alive, even though it is not really needed.
> >
> > Randy and Jackie Siniard
> >
> >
> Jacqueline P. Siniard
> Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
> The University of Alabama in Huntsville
> Materials Science Building Room C206
> Huntsville, Alabama 35899
> ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
> e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu
>
>
--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:21:26 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Lysodren "Loading" Phase
Message-ID: <347EB746.2D6BA783@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
As I stated before my dog has been on Anipryl for six months with no
success. After a urine and blood test, he will be placed on Lysodren.
At the time of his workup for Cushings, it was discovered that his
specific gravity was low, averaging 10.08. During the six months that
he was on Anipryl, his specific gravity was also checked once a month
during his check-up visits. He is starting his sixth month on Anipryl
and my Vet checked his electrolytes and "guaranteed" us that they
would
be "out of whack". Electrolytes came back normal....
My question is why is the "loading" phase necessary for Lysodren?
Why
can't it be done slowly instead of "loading" them and then reducing
the
dosage after normal levels have been obtained? So it takes a little
longer..but it just seems to be that it would be safer!
As you can see, I'm full of questions today. My last question is what
are the "clinical findings" that a Vet is checking on monthly
check up
visits while a dog is on Anipryl? As I stated he is now going on six
months on Anipryl and is just starting to get "peach fuzz" on
his belly
where they shaved him for the ultrasounds. He is soo much more playful
but is still drinking a little over a gallon of water a day. He weighs
95 lbs but has his whole life drank a lot of water.
Thank you for your time...
Linda
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:59:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Katerpoo@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Lysodren "Loading" Phase
Message-ID: <971128095903_245884149@mrin43.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-11-28 08:27:34 EST, you write:
<< My last question is what
are the "clinical findings" that a Vet is checking on monthly
check up
visits while a dog is on Anipryl? >>
That's part of the problem with Anipryl - whether or not it is working
is
subjective. Do you and your vet think that the clinical signs (drinking,
urinating, appetite, restlessness) are better or not. Abby has been on
half
the dosage of Anipryl for the past two weeks and I can say that some nights
she is better but others she isn't. There seems to be no reason for the
good
as opposed to the bad nights (no pattern either). We will try the correct
dosage for her weight in another two weeks.
Chris
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:19:53 -0500 (EST)
From: HelenFW@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Drenamin
Message-ID: <971128131952_1745173257@mrin86.mail.aol.com>
Hello Everyone, My dog was diagnosed with Cushing's last month. I
take him
to a Holistic Vet in Annapolis, Md., that recommended I give the dog a food
product, called Drenamin. The dog's symptoms have decreased . Sparky
doesn't drink as much, pants and eats less, now. Has anyone else tried
Drenamin and had success with it? Thanks for your input.
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:14:45 -0800
From: "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <0a4aa5616201cb7UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com>
Hi, Helen,
Our Yorkie, Terrible Ted was diagnosed a week ago and has been on Anipryl.
There doesn't seem to be any decrease in his syptoms, though there hasn't
been an increase either. If the Drenamin seems to alleviate symptoms as
quickly as you have experienced, please tell us more about it. Who is it
manufactured by and where did you get it, how is it administered and in
what
doses, etc.
Many thanks,
Eileen and Dave ROBERTS
-----Original Message-----
From: HelenFW@aol.com <HelenFW@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
<cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Date: Friday, November 28, 1997 10:22 AM
Subject: Drenamin
>Hello Everyone, My dog was diagnosed with Cushing's last month.
I take
him
>to a Holistic Vet in Annapolis, Md., that recommended I give the dog
a food
>product, called Drenamin. The dog's symptoms have decreased . Sparky
>doesn't drink as much, pants and eats less, now. Has anyone else tried
>Drenamin and had success with it? Thanks for your input.
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:32:08 -0500 (EST)
From: HelenFW@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <971128213207_1840178558@mrin39>
Hi Eillen and Dave, Drenamin is made by a company called "Standard
Process
Inc",
Palmyra WI. I take my dog to a Holistic Vet near Annapolis, Md. and she
suggested I try it. The dose is weight related. Sparky is a large dog
(80
pounds) and I give him 3 pills a day. I paid $18 for 90 pills. He still
does exhibit some of the symptoms but they have greatly decreased. Dr.
Rattner advised me to keep the dog on the medication for about 2-3 months
and
then we will retest his blood. She advised me that she had had several
other
patients who have had good results with the Drenamin. I believe Drenamin
is
manufactured primarily for humans, not for dogs but I do not know what its
primary purpose is. If there is any other information I can provide, feel
free to email me. Also if anyone else can provide me with further
information, I will gladly welcome it!
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 06:12:57 -0500 (EST)
From: LynneYoung@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <971130061257_107405542@mrin85.mail.aol.com>
Is this taken in conjunction to the Lysadren?
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:34:07 -0500 (EST)
From: HelenFW@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <971130173406_-1037555401@mrin38>
Hi Lynne, No the Drenamin is not given in conjunction with Lysadren.
I just
give Sparky the Drenamin three times times a day. Has anyone else ever
heard
of this ?? Thanks - Helen
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:21:03 -0800
From: "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re. Dremamin
Message-ID: <0279a04250501c7UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com>
I have found a web page for Standard Process Inc at www.standardprocess.com;
phone 1 800 848 5061; e-mail info@standardprocess.com. I have filled in
the
'patient' profile and requested information on Dremamin as a supplement
for
dogs with Cushing's Disease. Will let you know more when the information
comes in.
Terrible Ted is improving slowly. We wish that his belly would shrink some
as he has trouble getting up the stairs with his short legs. He seems better
at night and doesn't urgle-gurgle so much in his sleep.He is just finishing
his first week of Anipryl so we can't expect too much too soon.
Regards to all
Eileen and Dave ROBERTS