Cushing's Disease/Syndrome | Electronic Forum Digest 11

CUSHINGS-PETS Digest 11

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) Drenamin
by HelenFW@aol.com
2) Re: Lysodren "Loading" Phase
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
3) Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
4) Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
5) Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
by "Dorothy" <dorothys@beachlink.com>
6) SUBSCRIBE CUSHINGS-PETS: Randy Siniard (Sunny, Manchester Ch
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
7) Re: Drenamin
by RonJanet88 <RonJanet88@aol.com>
8) Re: Drenamin
by kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
9) Re: Drenamin
by Katerpoo <Katerpoo@aol.com>
10) Drenamin
by HelenFW <HelenFW@aol.com>
11) Re: Drenamin
by Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:15:01 -0500 (EST)
From: HelenFW@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Drenamin
Message-ID: <971201081501_681820198@mrin40.mail.aol.com>

I, too, requested information from Standard Process Inc. for the use of
Drenamin in treatment for dogs with Cushing's disease. I received no reply
from them. Maybe you will have better luck.

All I know, is that my Vet presented it to me as an option to try, saying
that others have had good results with it. Although Sparky's symptoms have
not disappeared while on it, I have definetly noticed a decrease in water
consumption, urination, and panting.

Many forms of Alternative or Holistic Medicine are not "proven" and it is up
to the individual whether he or she wishes to pursue this avenue.

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:23:40 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Lysodren "Loading" Phase
Message-ID: <9712010923.ZM27930@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Why is loading needed? Hmmmm. I never thought to ask. I had always assumed
that it was a way to speed the initial effect of the Lysodren.

Do we have any vets or biochem types who care to answer this?

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Never tell a man his kids are stupid, his dog is ugly or his wife is a babe.

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:42:50 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <34833D6A.2A33539A@warwick.net>
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I'm writing again with hopes that someone might have some answers for
me. My dog has been on Anipryl for six months now but my Vet sees no
"clinical" results. My dog had hair thinning and when his urine was
tested his specific gravity averaged monthly around 10.08. My Vet has
now decided to switch to Lysodren. I don't understand....does Anipryl
affect specific gravity? My dog's electrolytes were just recently
checked and they were normal...another thing I do not understand....if
his specific gravity is so low then why aren't his electrolytes out of
balance also??? My dog has "good" days and "bad" days on the Anipryl
but if switched to Lysodren, will this change?
As you can see, I'm very confused right now and trying to do what's
best for my dog but while on the Anipryl he got his "playfulness" back,
frequency in urination - we have to pry him off the couch to go outside
and even though he is down to about 1 gallon of water a day...his water
intake has decreased. If his ACTH results were so high...wouldn't it
take longer than the 6-8 weeks for the Anipryl to show results?
I want to thank you for your patience with me. I guess you could say
I'm "new" in the field and am just trying to educate myself. Thank you
for your time and patience.

Linda

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<HTML>
   I'm writing again with
hopes that someone might have some answers for me.  My dog has been
on Anipryl for six months now but my Vet sees no "clinical" results. 
My dog had hair thinning and when his urine was tested his specific gravity
averaged monthly around 10.08.  My Vet has now decided to switch to
Lysodren.  I don't understand....does Anipryl affect specific gravity? 
My dog's electrolytes were just recently checked and they were normal...another
thing I do not understand....if his specific gravity is so low then why
aren't his electrolytes out of balance also???  My dog has "good"
days and "bad" days on the Anipryl but if switched to Lysodren, will this
change?
    As you can see, I'm
very confused right now and trying to do what's best for my dog but while
on the Anipryl he got his "playfulness" back, frequency in urination -
we have to pry him off the couch to go outside and even though he is down
to about 1 gallon of water a day...his water intake has decreased. 
If his ACTH results were so high...wouldn't it take longer than the 6-8
weeks for the Anipryl to show results?
    I want to thank you
for your patience with me.  I guess you could say I'm "new" in the
field and am just trying to educate myself.  Thank you for your time
and patience.

Linda</HTML>

--------------706DB3BDB4850E86C3EC3578--

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:59:38 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <9712020859.ZM28810@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm not sure specific gravity is a good measure of the effectivness of a drug
for Cushings. Afterall, what you are measuring is really a side effect of the
disease. The ACTH stim test is a much better measure of the effectiveness.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Never tell a man his kids are stupid, his dog is ugly or his wife is a babe.

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:06:31 -0500
From: "Dorothy" <dorothys@beachlink.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Anipryl vs. Lysodren
Message-ID: <19971202120905.28e904ab.in@mail.beachlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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When I was researching Anipryl for my Abby, I found the website of the
manufacturer. I can't remember the name now, but I'm sure you'll find it
if you search "Anipryl." At that time, the manufacturer gave the
information that there were no tests to be used in determining the success
of the drug. It was suggested that empirical evidence, the condition of
the dog, the amount of water being drunk, excessive urination, etc. be used
as indicators of the dog's condition. If you feel your dog is doing better
on Anipryl, I wouldn't be fast to switch. Lysodren has lots of miserable
side-effects. I suggest getting another vet's opinion or having your vet
contact the manufacturer of Anipryl.
Best of luck. Dorothy

Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:00:49 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: SUBSCRIBE CUSHINGS-PETS: Randy Siniard (Sunny, Manchester Ch
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971205150049.006ca450@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My husband has been trying for awhile now to register on the cushings web,
this is his latest reply that he received yesterday, can you make anything
of it. I appreciate you looking into this. Thankyou so much. Jackie

>Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:37:40 -0600
>From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
>To: siniardj@email.uah.edu
>Subject: SUBSCRIBE CUSHINGS-PETS: Randy Siniard (Sunny, Manchester Ch
>
>
>
> What do you make of this sweet? I'm confused.
>
>______________________________ Forward Header
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>Subject: SUBSCRIBE CUSHINGS-PETS: Randy Siniard (Sunny, Manchester Ch
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e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:07:48 EST
From: RonJanet88 <RonJanet88@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <73a84797.348a4b47@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Hi all,
I have been reading the posts about Drenamin and I'm very interested in
trying this new drug on my 11 yr old Rio. She has been on Lysodren for a
little over a year and has done well on it, however, my vet told me that
Drenamin is very new and looks promissing. What appeals to me is the fact
that it does no organ (adrenal) damage as Lysodren does - according to one of
my vets, it works directly on the pituiary and the ACT feedback loop so the
corticosteroids will continue to be released more naturally and in normal
quanities from the adrenals. What she didn't know is how the Lysodren is
weaned off - I'm to contact her partner next week who is the Cushing's expert.
Has anyone had experience changing from Lysodren to Drenamin?

TIA for any info

Janet

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:56:14 -0800 (PST)
From: kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <199712070956.BAA04102@acme.csusb.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Would this be an addition or replacement for Anipryl as well or ..?
Thanks.

At 02:07 AM 12/7/97 EST, you wrote:
>Hi all,
> I have been reading the posts about Drenamin and I'm very interested in
>trying this new drug on my 11 yr old Rio. She has been on Lysodren for a
>little over a year and has done well on it, however, my vet told me that
>Drenamin is very new and looks promissing. What appeals to me is the fact
>that it does no organ (adrenal) damage as Lysodren does - according to one of
>my vets, it works directly on the pituiary and the ACT feedback loop so the
>corticosteroids will continue to be released more naturally and in normal
>quanities from the adrenals. What she didn't know is how the Lysodren is
>weaned off - I'm to contact her partner next week who is the Cushing's expert.
>Has anyone had experience changing from Lysodren to Drenamin?
>
>TIA for any info
>
>Janet
>
>
--
>--------------------------------------------<
~Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!~ -dire straits
kathleen richards -- krichard@acme.csusb.edu or kilty@tstonramp.com

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:40:46 EST
From: Katerpoo <Katerpoo@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <487a8183.348aa760@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 97-12-07 04:57:46 EST, you write:

<< Would this be an addition or replacement for Anipryl as well or ..?
Thanks.

At 02:07 AM 12/7/97 EST, you wrote:
>Hi all,
> I have been reading the posts about Drenamin >>

Or is this Anipryl under another name?

Chris

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:29:42 EST
From: HelenFW <HelenFW@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Drenamin
Message-ID: <18bccec9.348b3f78@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I have been giving my dog, Sparky, "Drenamin" for about a month , now. It is
not the same thing as Anipryl. As far as I know it is a food supplement
manufactured by Standard Process Inc. My Vet recommended trying it before
resorting to Anipryl or Lysodren. I have seen good results with it with
Sparky. I, along with others, have emailed Standard Process Inc. for
Drenamin's use in cushinoid dogs but as far as I know, none of us have
received any documentation from them. My gist from reading their website was
that Drenamin's primary use is for human consumption. Yet, I know my dog's
symptoms have decreased while on the Drenamin. My Vet told me other patients
experienced the same positive results. I will have Sparky's blood tested in
January and will be anxious for the results. According to my understanding
from my Vet the Drenamin provides the glands with the proper nutrients to
help them function properly. If anyone else tries this or has more
information than I do, I'd love to hear it!

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:57:09 EST
From: Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <8333fbbe.348b45e8@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Here is info on how my cocker passed away and how my new holistic vets believe
that the lysodren shut down her immune system. We were NEVER told that
lysodren was chemotherapy:

According to one holistic book, when having a CBC (complete blood count),
these levels will be increased since your last blood report results: glucose,
alkaline phosporous, cholesterol, sodium and cortisol. These will be
decreased: BUN and potassium. After a urinalysis, the specific gravity will
be often decreased under 1.007.

It is VERY important to be aware of these 2 things, which I was never told
about, even though I had two vets during this time period. The holistic books
say that you "MUST" give your pet a nutritional supplement AND it is suggested
that you "DO NOT" give the monthly heartworm medication (use the daily). The
adrenal glands will not function without adequate vitamin B complex, vitamin
C, minerals and the amino acid called tyrosine.

I recently had a 10 1/2 year old female red cocker who was in the hospital for
2 weeks with an autoimmune disease of thrombocytopenia (ITP). My Clarisse
passed away from DIC and a heart attack on March 23. Unfortunately, I e-
mailed John Cargill and Susan Thorpe at the end of her disease, but she was
very critical even with the $5,000 that we spent on traditional, homeopathic
and holistic medicines and varied vet care.

Susan: I am trying to get to the bottom of what might have initiated
Clarisse's bleeding disorder. She was on lysodren for Cushing's disease for 2
1/2 years; Interceptor heartworm; Program flea monthly pills; and the usual
distemper, parvo, rabies and lyme vaccinations. She also was placed on Hill's
Prescription r/d diet and lost 9 pounds.

We took - what we thought - was excellent care of her. She was always at the
vet's if she appeared abnormal or sick. I always kept a very close watch on
her vital and emotional signs.

The holistic vet believes that she was in toxic overload from drugs, and the
traditional vets say this is nonsense because signs of toxicity would have
shown up in her blood. There were more than enough blood tests done including
daily platelet checks at the hospital. She never was able to substain more
than 30,000 platelets. Her bone marrow test showed that she was more than
capable of producing the platelets. She was bleeding in her intestines. They
also did a tick serology test.

They had her on predisnone, immuran, cytoxin and vincristaline for a week and
a half. She had about 8 blood transfusions. After fighting with the
traditional hospital vets for a day and a half when their drugs didn't work,
they finally gave the holistic medicine we bought including: lithospirum,
yunna paiyao, and Vitamins C and K. After these medicines were administered,
her old sweet doggie behaviors surfaced and she didn't need her every day and
a half blood transfusions.

Here are Susan Thorpe's and John Cargill's responses when I gave them
Clarisse's synopsis while she was alive:

"Check with your homeopathic vet first, but what you need to do is build up
her immune system...I would suggest Vit E 400 IU, 500mg Ester-C and Selenium
100 MICROgrams per day. Also, a subligual form of Co enzyme Q 10...you or
your vet can get it from Food Science...have you or your vet been in touch
with W. Jean Dodds at (310) 828-4804 or (714)252-8455...she would be a GREAT
resource. Best Regards, Susan

Bill and Laura, If your vet questions the Vit E, explain that Vit E has
another function other than as an antioxidant...the Phytal tail
intercalculates w/ the Arachicdonic residues in the lipid bylayer and
physically stabilizes the cell membrane. All immune functions are cell
membrane mediated ...keeping the receptor sites at their optimum
'conformation' or three dimensional structure also maximizes the immune
response..or so the theory goes<grin> Selenium and E have a synergistic
relationship in that Selenium keeps recycling the E and E keeps Selenium at
the +2 oxidation state-where it is most effective. I suggest Ester-C over
ascorbic acid as it's pH is neutral and doesn't upset the GI tract, also the
brushborder cells take up the calcium and act like tiny time release capsules
so the C is not simply 'pissed' away. Again best regards, Susan

I am surprised that vitamin K was not one of the first things the vet did in
an attempt to increase coagulation. You have an animal that has many things
wrong with it, so it is obviously very difficult to figure out what the
triggering event(s) might have been. I do not know what impact a pituitary
tumor (Cushing's Disease) might have on the other problems. Could your dog
have gotten into any snail poisons or rodenticides, either directly or
indirectly? There are a number of things that can cause colonic bleeding, a
gastroenteritis for example.

If this were my dog, I would talk to my co-author Susan Thorpe-Vargas (PhD in
immunology) and to W. Jean Dodds, DVM who knows a whole lot about
transfusions, hematology, thyroid dysfunction, and immunology. She is the
founder and operator of HemoPet in Los Angeles, a blood bank for pets. I
would have your vet(s) call her immediately. Have them give my name and
Susan's. Dr. Dodds has also published several times on adverse reactions to
ivermectin and milbemycin (Heartgard and Interceptor). My view is that while
these reactions are rare, they are more common in immunocompromised dogs. Or
at least the literature pushes me in that direction.

My newly adopted cocker Honey is on a holistic regimen. I am POSITIVE that if
I had known about this preventative approach, my Clarisse would have been
alive today. I learned about the beginning info on the dog health newsgroup
when Clarisse was critical. That's also where I found out that she was
considered a "geriatric cancer patient".

My 6 year old cocker spaniel Honey was on the cusp of having hypothyroidism,
and now does not have it because of this medicine and the following diet I put
her on:

Foods include: fruits, vegetables, 2 teaspoons of flax oil, 2 teaspoons of
plain white yogurt, an egg every other day (boiled for 2 minutes), shredded
carrots, 2 teaspoons of wheat germ, beef cubes, lamb and ground round.
Vitamins include: kelp (really important for anemia because of the iron),
Ester C (stops bleeding in critical animals), anti-oxidant vitamin especially
pycnogenol (you can get this in any store. It is VERY important for killing
what are called "free radicals" that destroy blood cells). I use brewers
yeast and fresh garlic cloves for flea and tick repellents.

Many vets also say that the yearly vaccinations shut down a pet's immune
system. You can get what is called a vaccination titer test to show if your
pet already has the anitbodies for these diseases. If they do, holistic vets
say that they don't need the additional vaccinations that may jeopardize their
immune system as they get older.

The best book in the world to get is "The Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog" by
Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown. I found it in Barnes and Noble for $22.

This book will also teach you how to read your pet's blood reports and medical
tests. I now always ask for copies of all tests and check them against the
standards listed in this book. By getting a superchem blood test, it is very
easy for you to analyze what your pet might be lacking. A holistic vet might
also prepare a nutritional analysis of your pet's diet and tell you what's
missing.

To find a holistic vet in your area, check out the web site:
www.altvetmed.com. You can have it serach your state and it will pull up
holistic vets along with their addresses and phone numbers.

The first step that you should take is to have a "Free T4 by dialysis thyroid
profile" done. This will definitely tell you what shape your pet is in.

PLEASE take care of the problem ASAP because this will prevent MANY life-
threatening diseases from creeping up on your pet. The thyroid, pituitary and
adrenal glands are probably the MOST important systems in an animal's body. If
they are out of sync, your pet can develop any of the autoimmune diseases and
can possibly die suddenly from them. I just lost my cocker Clarisse from a
sudden bleeding disorder. I learned many things the hard way - from research,
to reading, to help from vets and immunologists, to e-mails from cocker owners
with autoimmuned pets.

You can REALLY make a huge difference in your pet's health and life expectancy
if you make their immune system strong via the steps outlined above.

I am not a doctor, so this is just advice that I learned too late. Hopefully,
it will help you now.

Laura