Cushing's Disease/Syndrome | Electronic Forum Digest 12

CUSHINGS-PETS Digest 12

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) Re: Drenamin
by kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
2) Re: Drenamin
by HelenFW <HelenFW@aol.com>
3) Drenamin
by EKAPLAN@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU
4) cushings & anorexia
by "scott" <scott@adams.net>
5) Re: cushings & anorexia
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
6) Cushing's symptoms
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
7) Re: Drenamin
by HelenFW <HelenFW@aol.com>
8) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
9) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
10) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
11) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
12) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
13) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by Jeri <kurvenal@ameritech.net>
14) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
15) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
16) Re[2]: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
17) Re: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
18) Re[3]: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
19) Re: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
20) Advanced Cushings
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
21) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
22) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
23) Re: Drenamin
by Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
24) Re: cushings & anorexia
by Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
25) Cushing's Diagnosis
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
26) Re: Advanced Cushings
by Ruthann Peterson <rppete@execpc.com>
27) Re: Advanced Cushings
by "Terry W. Schneider" <terrys@gunnison.com>
28) Re: Drenamin
by ChipperUD <ChipperUD@aol.com>
29) Re: Advanced Cushings
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
30) Re: Cushing's symptoms
by Katerpoo <Katerpoo@aol.com>
31) Randy-Why W/D?
by Katerpoo <Katerpoo@aol.com>
32) Diagnosis
by Erin Eyler <ErinEyler@aol.com>
33) Re: Diagnosis
by Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
34) Re: Diagnosis
by ChipperUD <ChipperUD@aol.com>

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:09:15 -0800 (PST)
From: kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <199712080909.BAA19830@acme.csusb.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Where do you buy this? What are the ingredients? Can it have a negative
effect? If it is truly simply a nutritional supplement and it helps, I
might try it with Ebony. I need to be careful as well because her epilepsy
can be triggered by certain foods (too high a protein), Thanks!

At 07:29 PM 12/7/97 EST, you wrote:
>I have been giving my dog, Sparky, "Drenamin" for about a month , now. It is
>not the same thing as Anipryl. As far as I know it is a food supplement
>manufactured by Standard Process Inc. My Vet recommended trying it before
>resorting to Anipryl or Lysodren. I have seen good results with it with
>Sparky. I, along with others, have emailed Standard Process Inc. for
>Drenamin's use in cushinoid dogs but as far as I know, none of us have
>received any documentation from them. My gist from reading their website was
>that Drenamin's primary use is for human consumption. Yet, I know my dog's
>symptoms have decreased while on the Drenamin. My Vet told me other patients
>experienced the same positive results. I will have Sparky's blood tested in
>January and will be anxious for the results. According to my understanding
>from my Vet the Drenamin provides the glands with the proper nutrients to
>help them function properly. If anyone else tries this or has more
>information than I do, I'd love to hear it!
>
>
--
>--------------------------------------------<
~Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!~ -dire straits
kathleen richards -- krichard@acme.csusb.edu or kilty@tstonramp.com

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:10:15 EST
From: HelenFW <HelenFW@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <7e68f5c9.348c4b8f@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

There are many ingredients in Drenamin: Defatted wheat germ, calcium lactate,
cellulose, nutrional yeast, dried buckwheat juice and seed, bovine liver
powder, vacuum dried bovine adrenal, dried porcine stomach, bovine adrenal
PMG extract, choline bitartrate, oat flour, alfalfa juice,, etc. It states on
the pkg. that it is sold only for dispensing by Practioners of the Healing
Arts. If there is a Holistic Vet in your area, I would try to purchase it
from them. I don't know if there are any negative side affects, although I
haven't noticed any with my dog. If you don't know a Holistic Vet in your
area, you might try the website at "altvetmed" or try contacting Standard
Process Inc., Palmyra, WI, who is the manufacturer. Hope this helps...!

Helen

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 09:03:53 ECT
From: EKAPLAN@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Drenamin
Message-ID: <199712101407.IAA16856@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>

Helen-
Thanks very much for the info. you supplied re. Drenamin. Any
such info. is appreciated.

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:42:24 -0600
From: "scott" <scott@adams.net>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: cushings & anorexia
Message-ID: <199712102048.OAA16364@golden.adams.net>
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My 10 year old lab "Jake" has cushings and is on Lysodrin. He has recently
finished his loading dose period & and last week started a maintenance dose
of 2 tablets a day on Mondays and Thursdays.
Every thing going fine except....
during loading dose period he lost his appetite which I understand is
normal, he then went a week with out any lysodryn and then returned to the
dosage listed above, however he still will not eat any dry dog food...
Purina, gravy train etc. However He will eat canned food , and goes right
after people food. He was never a picky eater before.
BTW ...in all other regards he appears to be doing well, he is playful,
active and water intake is back to normal. should I worry?

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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">My 10 year old lab =
"Jake" has cushings and is on Lysodrin. He has recently =
finished his loading dose period & and last week started a =
maintenance dose of 2 tablets a day on Mondays and Thursdays. Every =
thing going fine except.... during loading dose period he lost his =
appetite which I understand is normal, he then went a week with out any =
lysodryn and then returned to the dosage listed above, however he still =
will not eat any dry dog food... Purina, gravy train etc. However He =
will eat canned food , and goes right after people food. He was never a =
picky eater before.   BTW ...in all other regards he appears to =
be doing well, he is playful, active  and water intake is back to =
normal.  should I worry? 
</body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BD0579.D4294CA0--

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:31:52 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: cushings & anorexia
Message-ID: <9712101631.ZM6531@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Sounds kind of like Ivan. Talk to your vet about adjusting the dose. Ivan
does one tablet four times a week, which is the same dosage as Jake, only
spread out a little. He won't eat his dry (well, he will if he's hungry
enough), but if we add a little Mighty Dog and some salt-free chicken broth,
keep your fingers out of the bowl!

Some of this is due to his (both Ivan and Jake) being older. The senses are a
little off, so a little additional flavoring is needed. BTW, we zap the
concoction (1/4 can per meal with enough broth to cover the stuff) in the
microwave. Heating it releases the flavors and makes it even more appealing.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Extradite Ira Einhorn.

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:29:00 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <348F25BC.B7516F7B@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Does anyone know what the "signs" are of advanced Cushing's?

Linda

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:03:11 EST
From: HelenFW <HelenFW@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <d2e69233.348f3bd1@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

You are quite welcome. I hope we will all learn more about this disease
together! I, also have swiitched Sparky to an all natural dog food called
"Wysong". I, noticed almost immediately that his coat became more soft and
silky. Are others feeding their dogs anything special? Thanks.

Helen

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:11:34 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <9712110911.ZM20672@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Signs:

Extreme, prolonged and seemingly uncontrollable panting
Extreme thirst and urination (PU/PD)
"Insatiable" appetite
Pot-bellied appearance
Loss of coat
Thin, translucent skin
Dark, blotchy skin lesions
Apparent loss of concentration or inobedience

All of the above will recede with treatment.

Severe or advanced signs (untreated):

Congestive heart failure
Renal failure
Pulmonary failure
Death

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Extradite Ira Einhorn.

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:47:16 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971211094716.032b8da4@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A few additions to Dillon's *excellent* list of symptoms:

Muscle weakness and lameness (ACL tears);
Recurrent infections, particularly of the urinary tract and ears;
Raspy breathing (from lung mineralization).

An advanced effect you won't see is that the blood of Cushinoid dogs clots
very easily, possibly leading to embolisms. Apparently this tendency
toward clotting makes surgeries on Cushingoid dogs somewhat risky, although
our little Melissa came through her liver surgery just fine. It was,
however, an embolism to her brain that killed her.

Look for all of this information to be added to the Cushing's FAQ!

-Leslie

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:58:03 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971211155803.006ea060@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

These signs have not changed at all with Sunny, she is on 3/4 Lysodren Sat
and Tues, we have now been dealing with this for 8 months, no change.

At 09:11 AM 12/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Signs:
>
>Extreme, prolonged and seemingly uncontrollable panting
>Extreme thirst and urination (PU/PD)
>"Insatiable" appetite
>Pot-bellied appearance
>Loss of coat
>Thin, translucent skin
>Dark, blotchy skin lesions
>Apparent loss of concentration or inobedience
>
>All of the above will recede with treatment.
>
>
>Severe or advanced signs (untreated):
>
>Congestive heart failure
>Renal failure
>Pulmonary failure
>Death
>
>--
>dillon pyron
>dillon.pyron@amd.com
>PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
>Extradite Ira Einhorn.
>
>
Jacqueline P. Siniard
Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Materials Science Building Room C206
Huntsville, Alabama 35899
ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:21:32 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <9712111021.ZM24019@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Dec 11, 9:47am, Leslie Lawson wrote:
> Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
> A few additions to Dillon's *excellent* list of symptoms:
>
> Muscle weakness and lameness (ACL tears);
> Recurrent infections, particularly of the urinary tract and ears;

This is partially due to the fact that Cushings is sometimes caused by a
pituitary problem, which can also affect the thyroid and the immune system. In
fact, some vets view Cushings as an autoimmune disorder.

Also, the black blotches are frequently staph infections. Nothing to laugh at,
themselves.

> Raspy breathing (from lung mineralization).
>
> An advanced effect you won't see is that the blood of Cushinoid dogs clots
> very easily, possibly leading to embolisms. Apparently this tendency
> toward clotting makes surgeries on Cushingoid dogs somewhat risky, although
> our little Melissa came through her liver surgery just fine. It was,
> however, an embolism to her brain that killed her.

Ivan developed a MASSIVE hematoma in his spleen, which resulted in a
spleenectomy just about two years ago. Talk about trauma. For us, he came out
of it almost unphased and was walking around the clinic two hours after the
surgery!!!

>
> Look for all of this information to be added to the Cushing's FAQ!
>
> -Leslie
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from Leslie Lawson

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Extradite Ira Einhorn.

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:27:36 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <9712111027.ZM24427@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Dec 11, 9:58am, Jackie Siniard wrote:
> Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
> These signs have not changed at all with Sunny, she is on 3/4 Lysodren Sat
> and Tues, we have now been dealing with this for 8 months, no change.

This is not good news. Has your vet done another ACTH stim test? This is the
best measure of the efficacy of the drugs. Sometimes a second, or even third,
loading period is needed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Huntsville have
a vet school (or is that B'ham?). Lysodren dosing is still somewhat of an art,
rather than an exact science. Our vet admits that every change is a guess, and
we watch for symptoms and signs.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Extradite Ira Einhorn.

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:05:28 -0800
From: Jeri <kurvenal@ameritech.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <34909BE8.4914@ameritech.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dillon Pyron wrote:
> This is partially due to the fact that Cushings is sometimes caused by a
> pituitary problem, which can also affect the thyroid and the immune system. In
> fact, some vets view Cushings as an autoimmune disorder.

We see my vet on Monday, and on my list of questions was whether
Cushings
is an autoimmune disorder. Can you point me to any references that would
explain why some vets, (but not all vets?), view it as an AID?
Does that viewpoint ever alter the course of treatment?

> Ivan developed a MASSIVE hematoma in his spleen, which resulted in a
> spleenectomy just about two years ago. Talk about trauma. For us, he came out
> of it almost unphased and was walking around the clinic two hours after the
> surgery!!!

Was this before the diagnosis of Cushings? Kurvenal had gastric torsion
2 years ago, and his spleen was destroyed in the process, so he too has
had a spleenectomy. We found Kurvenal's Cushings as we were looking for
possible causes for his reoccuring bloat episodes, rather than due to
"normal" symptoms of Cushings, which he still doesn't exhibit, even
a year after diagnosis. (Though he just got his first bladder infection,
and he is also hypothyroid.) Does anyone think that the stomach torsion
could have been related to the beginnings of Cushings? I suppose there
would be no way to be certain, but I have often wondered. My vet says
there is no connection, and there often is no known cause for torsion
and
bloat, but *something* is causing a stomach motility problem--we just
don't know what.
I'm glad that Ivan got through his spleenectomy so easily! Kurvenal's
situation was much more difficult, and he wasn't expected to survive.
It was 8 long days before he could come home, but he's doing great
now!
Thanks for any input on my questions. Jeri kurvenal@ameritech.net

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:37:29 EST
From: Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <469b2d19.3490874c@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

The immune system shuts down and other life-threatening problems may appear.

Why are you inquiring? What signs are you seeing?

Laura

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:21:01 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <3490D7CD.D13DD891@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My 7yo Vizsla was diagnoised back in March with Cushings--all the test were
positive--however, she appears to be in good health at this point--I feed her
Solid Gold, raw veggies, brown rice, some raw beef, 1-2Grams Vit C daily, plus
sea minerals, flaxseed oil, two tabs of Drenimen, and small dose of shark
cartaledge (sp?).

I lost my 11yo Weimariner in March from kidney failure. It was the lowest point
in my life and, up until then, I wasn't aware of the importance of really good
nutrition, although I had always thought Science Diet was suppose to be great
food, and also used Nutra Nuggets--I really feel that Tracy died from generally
poor nutrition from crummy dog food--I hate paying vet bills--and the
frustration that goes with-- and will do anything feasible to alter my Vizsla's
slid into poor health--she is a good eater and I feel confident that the
regemine above will keep her healthy. I will also try Willard's Water if, after
some investigation, I think its worthwhile.

Good luck, Henry

Glimpact wrote:

> The immune system shuts down and other life-threatening problems may appear.
>
> Why are you inquiring? What signs are you seeing?
>
> Laura

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:07:06 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971212100706.006d64bc@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:09:12 -0600
>Message-ID: <000A65AA.3272@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
>From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
>To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
>Subject: Re[2]: Cushing's symptoms
>
>
> I have always heard from family and vets that feeding an animal
> "people food" does not give them the vitamins or fiber that they need.
> However, I have noticed that a number of postings lately show that
> alot of you feed your babies "people food."
>
> We feed our baby "Sunny" Hill's Science Diet W/D Dry and Tinned. We
> have also noticed that when we do give her an occasional "treat" of
> chicken or other "people food," she has gas.
>
> We have also continued giving her a supplement which we buy at a
> health food store. It is called "Pet Guard Yeast and Garlic Wafers."
> The ingrediants are: Brewer's Yeast, Primary Grown Yeast, Garlic
> Powder, Vegetable Oil. It does not have any Artificial Coloring,
> Preservatives, Artificial Flavorings, or Sugars. It provides the
> following:
>
> Vitamin C 6 mg.
> Thiamin 12 mg.
> Riboflavin 16 mg.
> Niacin 140 mg
> Iron .007 %
> Potassium 1.6 %
> Sodium .13 %
> Provides a significant amount of Complex B Vitamins
>
> It seems that her coat has not thinned as much as it was expected to
> do, nor has her coat ever lost the shine.
>
> She has however not changed in any of the other parts of Cushings.
> She still eats! and eats! It does not seem that they can get her
> dosing right. She breaths very raspy and heavily. We just want her
> to be comfortable. Jackie has told everyone about her previously, so
> I will not go on.
>
> Randy
>

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:31:36 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
Message-ID: <349166E7.FB21095E@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I don't understand why people with sick dogs don't feed Solid Gold, sea
minerals, and flaxsed oil--its the best--the subplement with 1000mg of esterC, B
complex, and fresh cut-up vegggies and garlic. . . . .

Flaxseed oil is very important-just search on the web and learn!!!!

Leslie Lawson wrote:

> >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:09:12 -0600
> >Message-ID: <000A65AA.3272@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
> >From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
> >To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> >Subject: Re[2]: Cushing's symptoms
> >
> >
> > I have always heard from family and vets that feeding an animal
> > "people food" does not give them the vitamins or fiber that they need.
> > However, I have noticed that a number of postings lately show that
> > alot of you feed your babies "people food."
> >
> > We feed our baby "Sunny" Hill's Science Diet W/D Dry and Tinned. We
> > have also noticed that when we do give her an occasional "treat" of
> > chicken or other "people food," she has gas.
> >
> > We have also continued giving her a supplement which we buy at a
> > health food store. It is called "Pet Guard Yeast and Garlic Wafers."
> > The ingrediants are: Brewer's Yeast, Primary Grown Yeast, Garlic
> > Powder, Vegetable Oil. It does not have any Artificial Coloring,
> > Preservatives, Artificial Flavorings, or Sugars. It provides the
> > following:
> >
> > Vitamin C 6 mg.
> > Thiamin 12 mg.
> > Riboflavin 16 mg.
> > Niacin 140 mg
> > Iron .007 %
> > Potassium 1.6 %
> > Sodium .13 %
> > Provides a significant amount of Complex B Vitamins
> >
> > It seems that her coat has not thinned as much as it was expected to
> > do, nor has her coat ever lost the shine.
> >
> > She has however not changed in any of the other parts of Cushings.
> > She still eats! and eats! It does not seem that they can get her
> > dosing right. She breaths very raspy and heavily. We just want her
> > to be comfortable. Jackie has told everyone about her previously, so
> > I will not go on.
> >
> > Randy
> >

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:29:57 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re[3]: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971212122957.006dfacc@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:06:18 -0600
>Message-ID: <000A6ADB.3272@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
>From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
>To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu, hbliley@erols.com
>Subject: Re[2]: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
>
>
> I don't know what SOLID GOLD is. I have never heard of it until I
> started reading it on this forum. What is it? Where can I obtain it?
> Is it good for dogs with borderline diabetes? Where can I find the
> other things listed as well? Please help?
>
>

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:11:02 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
Message-ID: <3491B675.6367EF20@erols.com>
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once more: here is the URL:

http://www.solid-gold-inc.com/index.html

check it out-- good luck, Henry Bliley

Leslie Lawson wrote:

> >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:06:18 -0600
> >Message-ID: <000A6ADB.3272@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
> >From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@fhssmtp.redstone.army.mil>
> >To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu, hbliley@erols.com
> >Subject: Re[2]: Cushing's symptoms FWD from Randy
> >
> >
> > I don't know what SOLID GOLD is. I have never heard of it until I
> > started reading it on this forum. What is it? Where can I obtain it?
> > Is it good for dogs with borderline diabetes? Where can I find the
> > other things listed as well? Please help?
> >
> >

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:11:32 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Advanced Cushings
Message-ID: <3491C4A4.1A951AD1@warwick.net>
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My heart sank the other nite when I read the info on signs of advanced
Cushings. My dog has been on Anipryl for the last six months with no
success. During this time his hair thinning is noticeable in more spots
now. He also is having trouble with his pads wearing away. He has a
check up this Monday in which a blood and urine test will be done and
then he will be started on Lysodren. I just hope I have enough strength
left in me to go thru the "loading phase."

My dog will be 6 y.o. this month. Due to gastrointestinal problems and
many, many food allergies, the only food he could tolerate until the
past year was Science Diet ID. Within the past year because of his
chronic colitis he was started on Science Diet Maintenance Lite. Is it
too late to switch him to another food such as Solid Gold?

If my dog is in advanced Cushing's...what good is it going to do for him
byputting him on Lysodren? He still is drinking a little over a gallon
of water a day, his hair is thinning out more but we have to pry him off
the couch to go outside. The loading phase of Lysodren just seems so
dangerous to me...again, I have to ask "Why is a loading phase
necessary"? Why can't you work up to a maintenance dose? Seems like it
would be much safer for the dog to tolerate.

Linda

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:19:03 EST
From: Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <d8ee965b.3491d48d@aol.com>
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Is it also tru that in advanced Cushing's, even on lysodren, that an animal
might need transfusions because their immune system shuts down on itself .
i.e. the following info on my Clarisse:

I recently had a 10 1/2 year old female red cocker who was in the hospital for
2 weeks with an autoimmune disease of thrombocytopenia (ITP). My Clarisse
passed away from DIC and a heart attack on March 23. Unfortunately, I e-
mailed John Cargill and Susan Thorpe at the end of her disease, but she was
very critical even with the $5,000 that we spent on traditional, homeopathic
and holistic medicines and varied vet care.

Susan: I am trying to get to the bottom of what might have initiated
Clarisse's bleeding disorder. She was on lysodren for Cushing's disease for 2
1/2 years; Interceptor heartworm; Program flea monthly pills; and the usual
distemper, parvo, rabies and lyme vaccinations. She also was placed on Hill's
Prescription r/d diet and lost 9 pounds.

We took - what we thought - was excellent care of her. She was always at the
vet's if she appeared abnormal or sick. I always kept a very close watch on
her vital and emotional signs.

The holistic vet believes that she was in toxic overload from drugs, and the
traditional vets say this is nonsense because signs of toxicity would have
shown up in her blood. There were more than enough blood tests done including
daily platelet checks at the hospital. She never was able to substain more
than 30,000 platelets. Her bone marrow test showed that she was more than
capable of producing the platelets. She was bleeding in her intestines. They
also did a tick serology test.

They had her on predisnone, immuran, cytoxin and vincristaline for a week and
a half. She had about 8 blood transfusions. After fighting with the
traditional hospital vets for a day and a half when their drugs didn't work,
they finally gave the holistic medicine we bought including: lithospirum,
yunna paiyao, and Vitamins C and K. After these medicines were administered,
her old sweet doggie behaviors surfaced and she didn't need her every day and
a half blood transfusions.

Here are Susan Thorpe's and John Cargill's responses when I gave them
Clarisse's synopsis while she was alive:

"Check with your homeopathic vet first, but what you need to do is build up
her immune system...I would suggest Vit E 400 IU, 500mg Ester-C and Selenium
100 MICROgrams per day. Also, a subligual form of Co enzyme Q 10...you or
your vet can get it from Food Science...have you or your vet been in touch
with W. Jean Dodds at (310) 828-4804 or (714)252-8455...she would be a GREAT
resource. Best Regards, Susan

Bill and Laura, If your vet questions the Vit E, explain that Vit E has
another function other than as an antioxidant...the Phytal tail
intercalculates w/ the Arachicdonic residues in the lipid bylayer and
physically stabilizes the cell membrane. All immune functions are cell
membrane mediated ...keeping the receptor sites at their optimum
'conformation' or three dimensional structure also maximizes the immune
response..or so the theory goes<grin> Selenium and E have a synergistic
relationship in that Selenium keeps recycling the E and E keeps Selenium at
the +2 oxidation state-where it is most effective. I suggest Ester-C over
ascorbic acid as it's pH is neutral and doesn't upset the GI tract, also the
brushborder cells take up the calcium and act like tiny time release capsules
so the C is not simply 'pissed' away. Again best regards, Susan

I am surprised that vitamin K was not one of the first things the vet did in
an attempt to increase coagulation. You have an animal that has many things
wrong with it, so it is obviously very difficult to figure out what the
triggering event(s) might have been. I do not know what impact a pituitary
tumor (Cushing's Disease) might have on the other problems. Could your dog
have gotten into any snail poisons or rodenticides, either directly or
indirectly? There are a number of things that can cause colonic bleeding, a
gastroenteritis for example.

If this were my dog, I would talk to my co-author Susan Thorpe-Vargas (PhD in
immunology) and to W. Jean Dodds, DVM who knows a whole lot about
transfusions, hematology, thyroid dysfunction, and immunology. She is the
founder and operator of HemoPet in Los Angeles, a blood bank for pets. I
would have your vet(s) call her immediately. Have them give my name and
Susan's. Dr. Dodds has also published several times on adverse reactions to
ivermectin and milbemycin (Heartgard and Interceptor). My view is that while
these reactions are rare, they are more common in immunocompromised dogs. Or
at least the literature pushes me in that direction.

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:20:28 EST
From: Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <30f30b5e.3491d4cf@aol.com>
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Was Melissa also on lysodren?

Laura

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:22:30 EST
From: Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <59c645df.3491d7b0@aol.com>
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Visit this web site for holistic vets: www.altvetmed.com

Highlight the "Table of Contents" and then the "AHVMA Directory" and then your
state. A listing of local holistic vets will appear.

Also be aware that some drugs have VERY bad side effects. A holistic vet will
strengthen your pet's immune system with natural vitamins and herbs.

Do not give these yourself. I am not a doctor, so please visit the site above
to find a holistic vet in your area.

Holistic vets have a superchem blood test that they perform which specifically
analyzes all of the enzymes and tells what major organs are being affected.
They will perform a nutritional analysis and prescribe specific foods,
vitamins and herbs that will strengthen your pet's compromised organs
specifically.

My cocker passed away in March and I've been doing tons of research, to the
point that I now believe (and so do my new holistic vets) that the
corticosteroid medicated shampoos and ear and tail medicine may have induced
her sudden life-threatening bleeding disorders and her immune system's shut
down. My new cocker is MUCH stronger now than when I adopted her. She's on a
complete natural diet and vitamins and herbs particular and specific to her
own body's weak spots.

My 6 year old cocker spaniel Honey was on the cusp of having hypothyroidism,
and now is showing higher testing levels because of the following diet I put
her on:

Foods that I give my cocker include: fruits (especially cantaloupe that is
loaded with Vitamin A), vegetables (especially alfalfa sprouts that contain
many helpful vitamins), 2 teaspoons of flax oil, 2 teaspoons of plain white
yogurt, shredded carrots, 2 teaspoons of wheat germ, and organic meats such as
beef cubes, lamb and ground round. Vitamins include: kelp, astragalus (to
strengthen the immune system against disease), Ester C (stops bleeding in some
critical animals), anti-oxidant vitamin especially pycnogenol (you can get
this in any store. It is VERY important for killing what are called "free
radicals" that destroy blood cells and activate cancer cells). I use brewers
yeast, fresh garlic cloves and Fleas Flee for flea and tick repellents.

Many vets also say that the yearly vaccinations shut down a pet's immune
system. You can get what is called a vaccination titer test to show if your
pet already has the antibodies for these diseases. If they do, some holistic
vets say that they don't need the additional vaccinations that may jeopardize
their immune system as they get older.

The best book in the world to get is "The Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog" by
Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown. I found it in Barnes and Noble for $22.

This book will also teach you how to read your pet's blood reports and medical
tests. I now always ask for copies of all tests and check them against the
standards listed in this book. By getting a superchem blood test, it is very
easy for your vet to analyze what your pet might be lacking. A holistic vet
might also prepare a nutritional analysis of your pet's diet and tell you
what's missing.

To find a holistic vet in your area, check out the web site:
www.altvetmed.com. You can have it search your state and it will pull up
holistic vets along with their addresses and phone numbers. Highlight the
"Table of Contents" area and then the "AHVMA Directory" and then your state.

Good luck and let me know how you make out.

Laura

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:30:25 EST
From: Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: cushings & anorexia
Message-ID: <65cc5662.3491db9b@aol.com>
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Some varied info from my research. I hope that it helps someone:

Call this number for info on anipryl: 800-520-2120. They can send you the
whole kit.

My cocker was on lysodren for a year and a half and I've done HUNDREDS of
hours of research to try to pinpoint why she developed an autoimmune sudden
bleeding disorder and died from it.

Several vets believe that it was the cushing's medicine - lysodren.

If anipryl had been available a year and a half ago, I would have definitely
put my Clarisse on it. According to everything that I've personally
researched and learned from experience, lysodren puts a burden on the thyroid
and changes the HPA axis which is part of the endocrine system of your pet.
This can have several detrimental effects - differing situations with each
pet.

The anipryl apparently has a different physiology effect in that it doesn't go
through the same systems and DNA and RNA cells. If you get the materials,
your vet can help you on the specifics. There are many diagrams.

Also, you can visit their web site at: www.deprenyl.com

Here is some of my research with my dog and some ways that you can build up
your dog's immune system (in the hypothyroid section - my new cocker has
this). She's on a total holistic, healthy diet with vitamins and herbs to
strengthen her. When an animal takes lysodren (chemotherapy), theire immune
system weakens.

My 10 1/2 red cocker passed away recently and she had Cushing's for a year and
a half. We went through an enormous ordeal trying to save her and to get
information about the disease.

I have extensive e-mails from immunologists, dog authors, vets and other
cocker owners. I recently adopted another female cocker and have put her on
an alternative holistic regiment. What a difference in her coat, energy and
attentiveness. If I had known about all of these items, I'm sure that my
Clarisse wouldn't have died as suddenly.

This is the text of a report found on America On Line regarding Cushings:

Subject: Re: Cushings Disease-AOL Veterinary Report
From: nanhew@aol.com (NanHew)
Date: 21 Apr 1997 12:07:30 GMT
Message-ID: <19970421120700.IAA10411@ladder01.news.aol.com>

Cushings Disease or Hyperadrenocorticism
Cushings disease is probably more accurately refered to as
hyperadrenocorticism -- the production of too much adrenal hormone, in
particular corticosteroids. It can be naturally occuring or due to
overadministration of corticosteroids such as prednisone (iatrogenic
Cushings). The latter is easy to cure - just cut out the corticosteroid
administration slowly to allow the body to return to normal function. The
former is more difficult.

Hyperadrenocorticism occurs for two reasons --- a tumor of the adrenal
gland that produces adrenal hormones or stimulation of the normal adrenal
glands from the hormones that control it. The primary reason for this to
occur is a pituitary gland tumor that produces excessive ACTH, which
stimulates the adrenal gland to produce corticosteroids. Adrenal gland
tumors account for 15% of the cases of spontaneous hyperadrenocorticism.
Pituitary tumors account for 85%.

Cushing's disease causes increased drinking, increased urination,
increased appetite, panting, high blood pressure, hair loss - usually
evenly distributed on both sides of the body, pendulous abdomen, thinning
of the skin, calcified lumps in the skin, susceptibility to skin
infections and diabetes, weakening of the heart and skeletal muscles,
nervous system disease and other symptoms. Most owners reach a point where
the water consumption and urination become bothersome to them.

The diagnosis of Cushings can be done with several blood tests. A general
hint of Cushing's can be obtained by a blood panel. To confirm it, a test
known as a low dose dexamethasone test is done. A baseline blood sample is
drawn in the morning, an injection of dexamethasone given and a followup
blood test done 8 hours later. In a normal dog, the dexamethasone should
suppress cortisol levels in the blood stream. In Cushing's disease this
effect does not occur. Once the disease is diagnosed, it is possible to
differentiate between the adrenal tumors and pituitary gland tumors using
a second test, a high dose dexamethasone suppression test. Most dogs with
pituitary tumors will have cortisol suppression on this test. There are
other tests used, including ACTH response tests and urine
cortisol/creatinine ratios to diagnose this disease. X-rays and
ultrasonography can help determine if an adrenal gland tumor is present.

If it can be determined that there is an adrenal gland tumor, it can be
removed. Many veterinarians prefer to have a specialist attempt this since
the surgical risks can be high. Pituitary gland tumors are not usually
removed in veterinary medicine. This situation is treated using Lysodren
(o'p'-DDD, which is a relative of DDT) or ketaconazole. Some research with
Deprenyl for treatment of this is being done, too, I think. Lysodren
selectively kills the outer layer of the adrenal gland that produces
corticosteroids. By administering it in proper amounts it is possible to
kill just enough of the gland off to keep the production of
corticosteroids to normal levels. Obviously, close regulation of this
using blood testing is necessary since overdoing it can cause severe
problems with Addison's disease - hypoadrenocorticism. Adverse reactions
to Lysodren occur at times but it is the standard treatment at this time.
Over medication with Lysodren can cause inappetance, vomiting, diarrhea,
lethargy and weakness. If any of these signs occur then your veterinarian
should be immediately notified.

Treatment of Cushing's disease caused by pituitary tumors is symptomatic
therapy -- it does not cure the pituitary tumor. The average lifespan of
dogs diagnosed with Cushings, with or without treatment is estimated at 2
years by Dr. Mark Peterson, but in a recent conversation with another
endocrinologist I came away with the impression that this was an "educated
guess" rather than the result of extensive survey of Cushing's patients.
At present, though, I think that treatment should be viewed as a means of
providing a better quality lifestyle rather than as a method of extending
longevity. Mike Richards, DVM

Some holistic vets believe that Cushing's makes their bodies too acidity
(increase in Alkaline Phosphatase) on their blood tests. Although I am NOT a
doctor or animal specialist, and you should speak with your own vet, I suggest
that you read my following info and educate yourself as much as you can. I
also have some articles about cancer, Cushing's and holistic alternatives if
you wish to send me your fax number.

Get copies of all of your dog's blood results and compare the numbers. Our
vet never told us that Clarisse had abnormal out of range numbers, and they
certainly increased to her detriment. There are also natural pituitary and
adrenal complexes from Progressive Laboratories (see below for address).
Also, do anything you can to increase your pet's immune system, which could
include a natural diet, vitamins, herbs and supplements (seek out a holistic
vet for this. Don't do it yourself).

Also, talk to your vet about having a T4 with dialysis thyroid profile done.
We were told that the Cushing's dramatically effects the thyroid, and some
vets suggest giving natural gland supplements to strengthen all of these
endocrine systems. By the way, these are all considered hormonal problems.

Call Jean Dodd. She is the leading immunologist and runs a dog blood bank in
LA. Her number is 310-828-4804.

My cocker recently passed away from a bleeding disorder and she had Cushing's
disease for 2 1/2 years. I know quite a bit about the disease, so I'm sure
that I can educate you:

It is either adrenalin-based or pituitary-based. To find out, you would want
to perform an ultrasound on your pet's front end of the kidneys (there are 2
glands). This will tell you if there is a tumor there. If a tumor is found,
surgical incision followed by glucocorticoid supplements is the treatment of
choice. With the pituitary type (by ruling out the other), lysodren
chemotherapy is needed. Your pet would be on a prescribed amount each week
and you would have to get the ACTH stimulation test and Dexamthasone
suppression tested every month of so. It is a very tricky procedure because
you're basically killing off the extra adrenalin fluid that the pet has in its
body.

Cushing's disease is the result of excessive secretion of ACTH by the
pituitary gland or tumors of the adrenal glands. Clinical signs include:
increased thirst and urination, increased panting, obesity, swollen eyelids,
calcium deposits on the skin (small bumps- especially check the paws) and
weakness.

According to one holistic book, when having a CBC (complete blood count),
these levels will be increased since your last blood report results: glucose,
alkaline phosporous, cholesterol, sodium and cortisol. These will be
decreased: BUN and potassium. After a urinalysis, the specific gravity will
be often decreased under 1.007.

It is VERY important to be aware of these 2 things, which I was never told
about, even though I had two vets during this time period. The holistic books
say that you "MUST" give your pet a nutritional supplement AND it is suggested
that you "DO NOT" give the monthly heartworm medication (use the daily). The
adrenal glands will not function without adequate vitamin B complex, vitamin
C, minerals and the amino acid called tyrosine.

We took - what we thought - was excellent care of her. She was always at the
vet's if she appeared abnormal or sick. I always kept a very close watch on
her vital and emotional signs.

Here are Susan Thorpe's and John Cargill's responses when I gave them
Clarisse's synopsis while she was alive:

For Susan--do you have anything to add. I know you will support my suggestion
that they get with Jean Dodds ASAP. I doubt that the cause of the problem has
been isolated and that problems will continue.

For Dog World--another well-received informative article."

Susan: I would REALLY appreciate your take on this and love to see any
negative articles you might have on the monthly medicines. The traditional
vets won't believe that these might have shut down her immune system.

Hypothyroidism:
This is one of the most common endocrine diseases of dogs. It is a deficiency
of the thyroid hormone, most frequently caused by the destruction of the
thyroid tissue or autoimmune thyroiditis. This autoimmune response has been
linked to genetic predisposition, drug reactions, metal toxicity, reaction to
modified live vaccinations and viral infections.

There are many signs including: dry skin, overweight, weakness and stiffness,
hair loss on both sides of the body, deposits on the eyelids, emotional
instability, etc.

Although soloxine is pretty much the traditional drug used as a supplement,
there is a natural complex called "Thyroid Complex" manufactured by
Progressive Laboratories, 1701 Walnut Hill Lane, Irving, Texas 75038. It
contains the raw thyroid, pituitary, spleen and adrenal concentrates that are
needed to restore the damaged or weak thyroid tissue. The medicine is much
more natural than the traditional drugs.

It works wonders. My 6 year old cocker spaniel Honey was on the cusp of having
hypothyroidism, and now does not have it because of this medicine and the
following diet I put her on:

Foods include: fruits, vegetables, 2 teaspoons of flax oil, 2 teaspoons of
plain white yogurt, an egg every other day (boiled for 2 minutes), shredded
carrots, 2 teaspoons of wheat germ, beef cubes, lamb and ground round.
Vitamins include: kelp (really important for anemia because of the iron),
Ester C (stops bleeding in critical animals), anti-oxidant vitamin especially
pycnogenol (you can get this in any store. It is VERY important for killing
what are called "free radicals" that destroy blood cells). I use brewers
yeast and fresh garlic cloves for flea and tick repellents.

Many vets also say that the yearly vaccinations shut down a pet's immune
system. You can get what is called a vaccination titer test to show if your
pet already has the anitbodies for these diseases. If they do, holistic vets
say that they don't need the additional vaccinations that may jeopardize their
immune system as they get older.

The best book in the world to get is "The Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog" by
Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown. I found it in Barnes and Noble for $22.

This book will also teach you how to read your pet's blood reports and medical
tests. I now always ask for copies of all tests and check them against the
standards listed in this book. By getting a superchem blood test, it is very
easy for you to analyze what your pet might be lacking. A holistic vet might
also prepare a nutritional analysis of your pet's diet and tell you what's
missing.

To find a holistic vet in your area, check out the web site:
www.altvetmed.com. You can have it serach your state and it will pull up
holistic vets along with their addresses and phone numbers.

The first step that you should take is to have a "Free T4 by dialysis thyroid
profile" done. This will definitely tell you what shape your pet is in.

PLEASE take care of the problem ASAP because this will prevent MANY life-
threatening diseases from creeping up on your pet. The thyroid, pituitary and
adrenal glands are probably the MOST important systems in an animal's body. If
they are out of sync, your pet can develop any of the autoimmune diseases and
can possibly die suddenly from them. I just lost my cocker Clarisse from a
sudden bleeding disorder. I learned many things the hard way - from research,
to reading, to help from vets and immunologists, to e-mails from cocker owners
with autoimmuned pets.

You can REALLY make a huge difference in your pet's health and life expectancy
if you make their immune system strong via the steps outlined above.

I am not a doctor, so this is just advice that I learned too late. Hopefully,
it will help you now.

Laura

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:53:14 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Cushing's Diagnosis
Message-ID: <3491CE69.B2F8534@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I am at a loss right now. My dog was diagnosed in May with Cushing's.
My Vet told me that he did not have a pituitary tumor or adrenal gland
tumor. The pituitary tumor was ruled out by a blood test and the
adrenal gland tumor was ruled out by two ultrasounds. What other causes
are there?

He also is VERY allergic to steroids/cortisone. At one point he was
given 2.5 mgs of prednisone for his allergies and reacted within 20
minutes so he has not been on any type of steroid his entire life. I
have read that long-term treatment with steroids is another possibility
of a cause for Cushing's. Again, my dog does not fall into this
category either.

Anyone know any other causes of Cushings?

Linda

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:58:51 -0600
From: Ruthann Peterson <rppete@execpc.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Advanced Cushings
Message-ID: <3491EBDB.FC08F4EE@execpc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Linda -- Please don't isolate all of the negative responses to Lysodren that
you read on this list. There are also many of us who's dogs experienced no
adverse affects during the loading phase. The treatment you have tried is
not working. To delay a change in treatment, be it Lysodren or Drenamin,
just puts your pup at a greater disadvantage. If you do not have faith in
the decisions of your current vet then find another in whose advice you
can have confidence. My Fergie went through the loading phase with
absolutly no adverse effects and has been on a maintenance dose of Lysodren
for 3 years with no symptoms. --- Ruthann

L Boyce wrote:

> My heart sank the other nite when I read the info on signs of advanced
> Cushings. My dog has been on Anipryl for the last six months with no
> success. During this time his hair thinning is noticeable in more spots
> now. He also is having trouble with his pads wearing away. He has a
> check up this Monday in which a blood and urine test will be done and
> then he will be started on Lysodren. I just hope I have enough strength
> left in me to go thru the "loading phase."
>
> My dog will be 6 y.o. this month. Due to gastrointestinal problems and
> many, many food allergies, the only food he could tolerate until the
> past year was Science Diet ID. Within the past year because of his
> chronic colitis he was started on Science Diet Maintenance Lite. Is it
> too late to switch him to another food such as Solid Gold?
>
> If my dog is in advanced Cushing's...what good is it going to do for him
> byputting him on Lysodren? He still is drinking a little over a gallon
> of water a day, his hair is thinning out more but we have to pry him off
> the couch to go outside. The loading phase of Lysodren just seems so
> dangerous to me...again, I have to ask "Why is a loading phase
> necessary"? Why can't you work up to a maintenance dose? Seems like it
> would be much safer for the dog to tolerate.
>
> Linda

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:14:00 -0700
From: "Terry W. Schneider" <terrys@gunnison.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Advanced Cushings
Message-ID: <000801bd076c$c749b200$4657bec7@gunnison.com.gunnison.com>

My 9+ y.o. German Wirehaired Pointer Brandy did the same. The thirst and
urination symptoms of Cushings disappeared within a few hours. After 8
months on Lysodren she has grown a new dense coat and we only had one
urination episode since. She is on 3 500 mg tabs/week, 1-1/2 tabs twice a
week.

The thing that strikes me as odd is I don't ever recall the vet or the vet
hospital at Colorado State University ever taking a urine sample for
diagnosis. She had lots of blood tests however.
Terry

============

Linda -- Please don't isolate all of the negative responses to Lysodren that
you read on this list. There are also many of us who's dogs experienced no
adverse affects during the loading phase. Snip...
========
L Boyce wrote:
> My heart sank the other nite when I read the info on signs of advanced
> Cushings. My dog has been on Anipryl for the last six months with no
> success. Snip...

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:30:38 EST
From: ChipperUD <ChipperUD@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Drenamin
Message-ID: <a05c161a.3491f350@aol.com>
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I switched my 7- year old Sheltie to Wysong about 1 year ago. I too, so a nice
change in the coat. Even though he was on the senior diet, he gained weight,
so I
just put him back on Purina Pro Plan Senior.

Joanne
Toledo, Ohio

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:15:02 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Advanced Cushings
Message-ID: <349243F5.1A7A7286@cynet.net>
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His symptoms were acute. He was drinking so much water he couldn't be
left for more than a couple of hours because he couldn't hold his urine.
His stomach was grossly distended and his liver was enlarged. His
appetite was voracious. He was listless and mostly unresponsive. His
coat was in terrible shape, and the hair they shaved to do an ultrasound
on him had not grown back even after three months. I was terribly
worried that he didn't have much time left. During the loading phase of
Lysodren he had one "episode" of severe vomiting - he had to spend the
night at the vets till they got it under control. After that they made
me back off the Lysodren for a week, and the subtle improvements I'd
seen at first cdisappeared.

Then, acting on my own instincts, I put him through a shorter loading
phase . I should add that the vet also decided he was hypothyroid, and
put him on medicine for that. The second time around I had no problem
with the Lysodren. Within a week or so his symptoms had abated. Today he
is so much better it's unbelievable. His distended stomach is gone and
so is his voracious appetite. His "old" personality has returned and he
happily goes for runs in the woods every day. His coat grew back within
a month, and after a brief episode of heavy shedding and dandruff, it is
quite soft and silky now. He is on a very low maintenance dose of
Lysodren right now - a half a pill a couple of times a week (sometimes I
only give him one a week if his appetite seems low.)

Bo is almost 11 years old now, so there are some signs of aging, but all
in all I am quite happy with the results of Lysodren. Although I respect
peoples' desire not to give powerful medications when more natural
alternatives may exist, I also believe there are times when medication
is warranted. Our dogs' lifespans are much shorter than ours to begin
with, and I am thrilled that for the time being, Bo's quality of life
has been restored. I can't predict what will happen in the future, of
course, but for right now, I feel we've been given a second chance.

I was really concerned about the impact of Lysodren also, Linda, but
I've found that with a little common sense it's worked quite well.f

Good luck
Judy

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<HTML>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>My heart sank the other nite when I read the info on signs of advanced
Cushings.  My dog has been on Anipryl for the last six months with no
success.  During this time his hair thinning is noticeable in more spots
now.  He also is having trouble with his pads wearing away.  He has a
check up this Monday in which a blood and urine test will be done and
then he will be started on Lysodren.  I just hope I have enough strength
left in me to go thru the "loading phase."

My dog will be 6 y.o. this month.  Due to gastrointestinal problems and
many, many food allergies, the only food he could tolerate until the
past year was Science Diet ID.  Within the past year because of his
chronic colitis he was started on Science Diet Maintenance Lite.  Is it
too late to switch him to another food such as Solid Gold?

If my dog is in advanced Cushing's...what good is it going to do for him
byputting him on Lysodren?  He still is drinking a little over a gallon
of water a day, his hair is thinning out more but we have to pry him off
the couch to go outside.  The loading phase of Lysodren just seems so
dangerous to me...again, I have to ask "Why is a loading phase
necessary"?  Why can't you work up to a maintenance dose?  Seems like it
would be much safer for the dog to tolerate.

Linda</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Linda,  from from December through perhaps April of this year, our
Bo was in what seemed to be an advancecd state of Cushings. An initial
diagnosis was made in January, I think, but he wasn't started on Lysodren
until about February until the tests were complete.

His symptoms were acute. He was drinking so much water he couldn't be
left for more than a couple of hours because he couldn't hold his urine.
His stomach was grossly distended and his liver was enlarged. His appetite
was voracious. He was listless and mostly unresponsive. His coat was in
terrible shape, and the hair they shaved to do an ultrasound on him had
not grown back even after three months. I was terribly worried that he
didn't have much time left. During the loading phase of Lysodren he had
one "episode" of severe vomiting - he had to spend the night at the vets
till they got it under control. After that they made me back off the Lysodren
for a week, and the subtle improvements I'd seen at first cdisappeared.

Then, acting on my own instincts, I put him through a shorter loading
phase . I should add that the vet also decided he was hypothyroid, and
put him on medicine for that. The second time around I had no problem with
the Lysodren. Within a week or so his symptoms had abated. Today he is
so much better it's unbelievable. His distended stomach is gone and so
is his voracious appetite.  His "old" personality has returned and
he happily goes for runs in the woods every day.  His coat grew back
within a month, and after a brief episode of heavy shedding and dandruff,
it is quite soft and silky now. He is on a very low maintenance dose of
Lysodren right now - a half a pill a couple of times a week (sometimes
I only give him one a week if his appetite seems low.)

Bo is almost 11 years old now, so there are some signs of aging, but
all in all I am quite happy with the results of Lysodren. Although I respect
peoples' desire not to give powerful medications  when more natural
alternatives may exist, I also believe there are times when medication
is warranted.  Our dogs' lifespans are much shorter than ours to begin
with, and I am thrilled that for the time being, Bo's quality of life has
been restored. I can't predict what will happen in the future, of course,
but for right now, I feel we've been given a second chance.

I was really concerned about the impact of Lysodren also, Linda, but
I've found that with a little common sense it's worked quite well.f

Good luck
 Judy
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:36:55 EST
From: Katerpoo <Katerpoo@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's symptoms
Message-ID: <eaedb9fc.3492735a@aol.com>
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In a message dated 97-12-12 10:44:09 EST, you write:

<< Look for all of this information to be added to the Cushing's FAQ! >>

Where is the Cushing's FAQ? TIA.

Chris

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:42:56 EST
From: Katerpoo <Katerpoo@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Randy-Why W/D?
Message-ID: <c442dafc.349274c2@aol.com>
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In a message dated 97-12-12 12:09:06 EST, you write:

<< > We feed our baby "Sunny" Hill's Science Diet W/D Dry and Tinned. We
> have also noticed that when we do give her an occasional "treat" of
> chicken or other "people food," she has gas. >>

I was just curious what made you try W/D? That's what I've had to feed Abby
since I got her to avoid unpleasant liquid diarrhea episodes. Just wondering
if they could be Cushings related. I've had her for 3.5 years (on W/D) and
she was just diagnosed with Cushings about 9 months ago (starting showing
signs of Cushings about a year and nine months ago). TIA.

Chris

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:02:27 EST
From: Erin Eyler <ErinEyler@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Diagnosis
Message-ID: <27d4907c.34932228@aol.com>
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My Cockapoo, Erin, was diagnosed with Cushings disease about a week ago. Per
the test results, her condition appears to be caused by her pituitary gland.
Erin is only 2 1/2 years old. Her adrenal gland and thyroid function were
tested because her allergy hyposensitization treatments don't seem to be
working and her veterinarian and I started suspecting something else was
wrong. I have been giving her hyposentization shots for almost a year. She
is allergic to many foods and flora, and is presently on a low antigen diet
(Eukaneuba fish and potato). Erin has received steriods to control her
itching (vetalog injection or tablet 1.5 mg or methylprednisolone tablets 2
mg) on and off for about a year. About a year and a half ago she developed a
terrible hot spot she would not leave alone and was on prednisone for about a
week. Her last steroid treatment was about one month prior to these tests.

Does anyone have experience with Cushing's disease being diagnosed at such an
early age? Erin doesn't appear to exhibit the symptoms. She drank a lot of
water when she was a puppy, but she was so active. Currently she drinks more
water than usual and has put on 2-3 pounds, but these changes seem to coincide
with her steroid treatments. Could her recent treatment have interfered with
the test results? Additionally, I have also been bathing her with a shampoo
containing hydrocortisone and aloe (it seems to help the itching). Could this
shampoo have interfered? I would appreciate any information or ideas.

Thanks
Kelly Eyler

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:57:52 EST
From: Glimpact <Glimpact@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Diagnosis
Message-ID: <50775f27.349367a8@aol.com>
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Many steroids are listed in the doctor's reference books as inducing Cushing's
disease.

Laura

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:41:35 EST
From: ChipperUD <ChipperUD@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Diagnosis
Message-ID: <16ccd82a.34948ad1@aol.com>
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I have a Sheltie who was diagnosed with Cushings at age 3. His is caused by a
tumor. He showed no symptons of the disease. I had a blood work-up done
because I felt he wasn't as enthusiastic about his obedience training as he
had been. Well, after a lot of time and money a vet suggested to check for
Cushings, even though he felt it would be unlikely for such a young dog to
have it. The test was positive. it took a very long to time to get his Lysdron
dosage down to the current 500 mg per week. He is now 7-1/2 and doing very
well. I had to end his show career, because he is unable to cope with any
stress and does have some vision problems.

I hope your dog can do as well as mine!

Joanne Silhanek