Cushing's Disease/Syndrome | Electronic Forum Digest 16

CUSHINGS-PETS Digest 16

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) drooling
by "scott" <scott@adams.net>
2) Re: drooling
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
3) "Loading" Lysodren
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
4) Re: "Loading" Lysodren
by "scott" <scott@adams.net>
5) While were at it..
by "scott" <scott@adams.net>
6) Water Intake
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
7) water intake
by "scott" <scott@adams.net>
8) Re: Water Intake
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
9) Water Intake
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
10) Water Intake
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
11) Re: Water Intake
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
12) New to list
by DAOsborn@softart.com
13) Progress report on Terrible Ted
by "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
14) Re: Progress report on Terrible Ted
by MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
15) Re: Progress report on Terrible Ted
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
16) Re: Progress report on Terrible Ted
by "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
17) Lysodren Loading
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:08:10 -0600
From: "scott" <scott@adams.net>
To: "cushings list" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: drooling
Message-ID: <199801052007.OAA24687@golden.adams.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD19E3.5ADAC800"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BD19E3.5ADAC800
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

here's a new one on me...

Jake ( 10 yr old choc lab) continues to do well on Lysogyn, hair coming
back in, belly distention gone, appetite good , acts like a puppy again.
But.. he some times goes through bouts of drooling.. maybe once a week
some times twice... but when I say drooling I mean allot of drooling. it
is as the stuff is a constant stream and this can last a few hours. he has
no other symptoms or problems. Is there a connection between the disease or
the cure & drooling?

------=_NextPart_000_01BD19E3.5ADAC800
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">here's a new one on me... Jake ( =
10 yr old choc lab) continues to do well on Lysogyn, hair coming back =
in, belly distention gone, appetite good , acts like a puppy again. =
 But..  he some times goes through bouts of drooling.. maybe =
once a week  some times twice...  but when I say drooling I =
mean allot of drooling. it is as the stuff is a constant stream and this =
can last a few hours. he has no other symptoms or problems. Is there a =
connection between the disease or the cure & drooling?
</body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BD19E3.5ADAC800--

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:17:22 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: drooling
Message-ID: <9801051417.ZM5612@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

How are Jake's teeth? We've occasionally seen this problem with Ivan, our vet
racks it up to old age.

"We'll see how you're doing when you're his age. Assuming you live that long"

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Extradite Ira Einhorn.

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:37:38 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: "Loading" Lysodren
Message-ID: <34B160B1.73D20A5@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Everyone...

A couple of weeks ago my dog started his "loading phase" of Lysodren.
After four days his water intake had dropped drastically so a blood test
was taken. Unfortunately his results were still doubled but after two
days his water intake was still low so we did another blood test. At
this point my dog was off Lysodren for almost two weeks.

We are now doing our second "loading phase". Has anyone seen the water
intake increase? My Schonus is now on Day 5 and is up over 2 gallons of
water a day. He was previously drinking 1 1/2 gallons during the first
loading phase. I'm beginning to think the Lysodren isn't going to help!

Linda

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:11:28 -0600
From: "scott" <scott@adams.net>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: "Loading" Lysodren
Message-ID: <199801060213.UAA13752@golden.adams.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.1AF4DEA0"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.1AF4DEA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am no expert but something does not sound right. When Jake went through
his loading phase water intake dropped from 80 oz a day to 48 oz { 100 lb
dog} he was tested after the loading phase and responded well to the
treatment. in trying to get his maintenance dose right his water intake has
risen to 56oz on some days and as high as 65 on others, we are currently
raising dose this week, tithing to water intake and appetite. Hope this
helps..

----------
> From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
> To: Cushing's e-mail <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
> Subject: "Loading" Lysodren
> Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:37 PM
>
> Hi Everyone...
>
> A couple of weeks ago my dog started his "loading phase" of Lysodren.
> After four days his water intake had dropped drastically so a blood test
> was taken. Unfortunately his results were still doubled but after two
> days his water intake was still low so we did another blood test. At
> this point my dog was off Lysodren for almost two weeks.
>
> We are now doing our second "loading phase". Has anyone seen the water
> intake increase? My Schonus is now on Day 5 and is up over 2 gallons of
> water a day. He was previously drinking 1 1/2 gallons during the first
> loading phase. I'm beginning to think the Lysodren isn't going to help!
>
> Linda
>
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.1AF4DEA0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">I am no expert but something does not =
sound right. When Jake went through his loading phase water intake =
dropped from 80 oz a day to 48 oz { 100 lb dog} he was tested =
  after the loading phase and responded well to the treatment. =
in trying to get his maintenance dose right his water intake has risen =
to 56oz on some days and as high as 65 on others, we are currently =
raising dose this week, tithing to water intake and appetite.  Hope =
this helps.. ---------- > From: L =
Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net> > To: Cushing's e-mail <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu> > Subject: "Loading" =
Lysodren > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:37 PM > > =
Hi Everyone... > > A couple of weeks ago my dog started his =
"loading phase" of Lysodren. > After four days his water =
intake had dropped drastically so a blood test > was taken. =
 Unfortunately his results were still doubled but after two > =
days his water intake was still low so we did another blood test. =
 At > this point my dog was off Lysodren for almost two =
weeks. > > We are now doing our second "loading =
phase".  Has anyone seen the water > intake increase? =
 My Schonus is now on Day 5 and is up over 2 gallons of > =
water a day.  He was previously drinking 1 1/2 gallons during the =
first > loading phase.  I'm beginning to think the Lysodren =
isn't going to help! > > Linda > 
</body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.1AF4DEA0--

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:17:44 -0600
From: "scott" <scott@adams.net>
To: "cushings list" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: While were at it..
Message-ID: <199801060217.UAA15127@golden.adams.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.FB9B3EE0"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.FB9B3EE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

what is normal water consumption for a 100 LB house dog in the mid west
winter?
My vet did some math and came up with a figure in the low 60 oz range but
then said that seamed high. As I said earlier Jake is showing remarkable
signs of improvement these last 3 weeks, but we are looking at bumping dose
a 1/2 a pill a week because of his increased water consumption ( mid 40 oz
range during load Phase to mid 60 now)

thanks all

Scott & Jake
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.FB9B3EE0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">what is normal water consumption for a =
100 LB house dog in the mid west  winter? My vet did some math =
and came up with a figure in the low 60 oz range but then said that =
seamed high. As I said earlier Jake is showing remarkable signs of =
improvement these last 3 weeks, but we are looking at bumping dose a 1/2 =
a pill a week because of his increased water consumption  ( mid 40 =
oz range during load Phase to mid 60 now) thanks all Scott =
& Jake
</body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.FB9B3EE0--

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 18:19:42 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Water Intake
Message-ID: <34B2ADFD.97D011E6@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Scott.....

My Vet told me that he's trying to get my dog's water intake down to 3
quarts a day. Schonus got up to 102 pounds but currently is down to 93
pounds. We are going thru his second loading phase and he is still up
to 1 1/2 gallons. Not sure what all this is in ounces but he also is
not improving in any other areas either.

When we did the first loading phase and were waiting for the results of
his blood test his water intake sky rocketed....over 2 gallons. Day 7
of his second loading phase will be this Thursday and then blood test on
Friday.....

Has anyone had to go thru more than two loading phases??

Linda & Schonus

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:43:58 -0600
From: "scott" <scott@adams.net>
To: "cushings" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: water intake
Message-ID: <199801070254.UAA03524@golden.adams.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mr. / Ms Boyce

To put your dogs water intake into perspective your vet is looking to get
your dog down to 96oz a day (3 qrts)

My vet is mildly concerned with Jakes 56 -67 oz..

Has your vet done a differential test to confirm P dependant cushings vrs
adrenal? perhaps why drug is not working..???

At least in Jake's case water intake dropped in first 48 hours of loading
phase.

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:03:16 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Water Intake
Message-ID: <9801070903.ZM18994@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

We've had Ivan through three loadings, over a three year period. When we
started, he was drinking about 60 oz of water a day, for a 45 pound dog. Thank
goodness for doggie doors. He now drinks about 25 oz a day (hard to accurately
judge with two dogs in the house).

We've recently cut his dosage from 5 times a week to 4, due to ACTH stim
results and a weight decrease (he's now about 38 pounds).

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
Extradite Ira Einhorn.

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:24:11 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Water Intake
Message-ID: <34B40E9B.AF4F0D16@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Scott...

Schonus was diagnosed as pituitary related Cushing's.....and yes, during
his first loading phase his water intake dropped within 48 hours. It
dropped approximately 1/2 gallon and his first loading phase lasted 4
days but the blood test results still showed his pre and post counts to
still be doubled the normal.

We have already tried Anipryl for six months but had no results with
that. My Vet said we should have seen results with Anipryl within 6-8
weeks but he/we kept him on it for six months.

Linda Boyce

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:51:11 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Water Intake
Message-ID: <34B414EF.F278A9BA@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dillon...

Just got out my cookbook and figured out Schonus is drinking 192 oz of
water a day and is now finishing his second loading phase tomorrow
within two weeks. He weighed 102 lbs before starting treatment but is
now down to 93 pounds. Seems like weight loss is the only improvement
we've seen. As of his last blood test..his pre count was 8 and his post
count was 32....My hopes are starting to diminish!

Linda

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:33:01 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Water Intake
Message-ID: <34B43AC1.813DB710@cynet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Linda, I would think that four days for the first loading test might
have been too short. Maybe that's why the blood test showed little
improvement.
Judy

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:09:36 -0500
From: DAOsborn@softart.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: New to list
Message-ID: <00057E2F.1408@softart.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

Greetings. I just joined the list this week, so I thought I would
introduce myself. My name is Doreen and I live in Indianapolis. My
scottie, Kelso, is an 11 year old male. He was diagnosed with
Cushings in July 1997 after months of testing. He was put on lysodren
and converted after 6 days and is currently doing great on the
maintenance program. Many thanks to my great vet staff and the
experts at Purdue Vet school.

I wish I had known about this list at the time of diagnosis and
testing, but I'm glad to be a part now.

I also subscribe to the scottie list and K9 singles list. I also have
a female scottie Blair who is 7. I have trained in obedience (Kelso
has his CDX) and showed Blair in confirmation.

Will post more later after I become familiar with the format.

Doreen, Kelso and Blair

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:23:27 -0800
From: "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
To: <Cushings-Pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Progress report on Terrible Ted
Message-ID: <0918f3225180918UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com>

Hi All,
After ten days in Miami Beach we have returned to the frozen
north, though British Columbia is not as badly hit as other parts of Canada.
Ted has been undergoing treatment since early December and is
receiving 5mg. of Anipryl daily. We supplement this with two tablets of
Drenamen and 250 mg. of glucosamine sulfate.
When diagnosed Ted's belly was distended, his coat had become
thin and lost its color, going almost silver and pale blonde, not the
coloring of the normal Yorkie.
Having been apart for ten days we have noticed a number of
changes in him. He is much brighter, breaks into a trot on his walks, has
lost some (but not a lot) of weight. His coat pigmentation seems to be
returning in a number of areas. I thought this was my fond imagination, but
Eileen and a neighbor commented on it also.
He still drinks copious quantities of water, but again, not as
much as before. It appears to us that there is a significant improvement in
him and we will look forward to the results of tests when the vet performs
them.
We follow with interest the comments that appear on the forum
and it helps us put things in perspective when we look at our own little
friend.
Best wishes to all,

Eileen and Dave ROBERTS

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:34:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Progress report on Terrible Ted
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980110013224.36220A-100000@trentu.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, David ROBERTS wrote:

> Hi All,
> After ten days in Miami Beach we have returned to the frozen
> north, though British Columbia is not as badly hit as other parts of Canada.
> Ted has been undergoing treatment since early December and is
> receiving 5mg. of Anipryl daily. We supplement this with two tablets of
> Drenamen and 250 mg. of glucosamine sulfate.
>
Hope Ted feels better soon...

But my question: I went to the Standard Process home page and they said
their product's only available in the US. How do you get your Drenamin up
here in Canada? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Lia

==============================================================================
"Us not dumb! Make bad things to teechers stop!"
---`Ontario Students', This Hour Has 22 Minutes
Lia M Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess of the Procrastinators
lmbrown@trentu.ca anlmb@blaze.trentu.ca
==============================================================================

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:59:01 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Progress report on Terrible Ted
Message-ID: <34B79AC5.78829E3@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Regarding the unavaialability of Drenamen in Canada: if you will send me your
check for the cost of the product and mailing, appx $45.00, I will be glad to
order a large bottle for you (appx 300 pills) and forward it to Canada. I realize
that this sounds "iffy", but I am an honest person whose doggie also suffers from
Cushing's and I will be glad to help. Please reply privately to
<hbliley@erols.com>

Henry Bliley

MAD PRAETOR wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, David ROBERTS wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> > After ten days in Miami Beach we have returned to the frozen
> > north, though British Columbia is not as badly hit as other parts of Canada.
> > Ted has been undergoing treatment since early December and is
> > receiving 5mg. of Anipryl daily. We supplement this with two tablets of
> > Drenamen and 250 mg. of glucosamine sulfate.
> >
> Hope Ted feels better soon...
>
> But my question: I went to the Standard Process home page and they said
> their product's only available in the US. How do you get your Drenamin up
> here in Canada? Inquiring minds want to know! :)
>
> Lia
>
> ==============================================================================
> "Us not dumb! Make bad things to teechers stop!"
> ---`Ontario Students', This Hour Has 22 Minutes
> Lia M Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess of the Procrastinators
> lmbrown@trentu.ca anlmb@blaze.trentu.ca
> ==============================================================================

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:06:42 -0800
From: "David ROBERTS" <d_one_delta@email.msn.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Progress report on Terrible Ted
Message-ID: <0deba0316170a18UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com>

I live just a few miles north of the US border, near the anomaly of point
Roberts, WA. I had the pills sent to a PO box there. I had contacted the
Standard Process branch at Kirkland, WA and they had given me the name of a
naturopath who lives just around the corner from us. I contacted him and he
told me that they will forward any goods on a credit card. To short circuit
matters and avoid the delays of snail-mail I had them sent to Point Roberts.
-----Original Message-----
From: MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
<cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: Progress report on Terrible Ted

>On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, David ROBERTS wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>> After ten days in Miami Beach we have returned to the frozen
>> north, though British Columbia is not as badly hit as other parts of
Canada.
>> Ted has been undergoing treatment since early December and is
>> receiving 5mg. of Anipryl daily. We supplement this with two tablets of
>> Drenamen and 250 mg. of glucosamine sulfate.
>>
>Hope Ted feels better soon...
>
>But my question: I went to the Standard Process home page and they said
>their product's only available in the US. How do you get your Drenamin up
>here in Canada? Inquiring minds want to know! :)
>
> Lia
>
>===========================================================================
===
> "Us not dumb! Make bad things to teechers stop!"
> ---`Ontario Students', This Hour Has 22 Minutes
> Lia M Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess of the Procrastinators
> lmbrown@trentu.ca anlmb@blaze.trentu.ca
>===========================================================================
===
>
>

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:15:51 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Lysodren Loading
Message-ID: <34B7F317.32B37CA3@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All!

Schonus just went thru his second loading phase with no success.
Everytime he gets the ACTH test, he starts within a few hours of
drinking lots of water, becomes restless and is up all nite long with
diarrhea. Has anyone else experienced this?

Looks like our next step is to redo his abdominal ultrasound to again
rule out a tumor and another test to rule out a pituitary tumor. The
first tests were negative foro tumors and he was diagnosed pituitary
dependent. He was also on Anipryl for six months. If a tumor is
present, surgery will be indicated per my Vet as no medications are
working. Has anyone gone down this road? My heart sank when we got
this news and it's getting rather hard to keep a positive attitude.

Linda & Schonus