Cushing's Disease/Syndrome | Electronic Forum Digest 22

CUSHINGS-PETS Digest 22

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) RIMADYL--Correction
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
2) Liver Problems
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
3) Ivan
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
4) Re: Ivan
by "Jenice Smith" <jsmith@bmi.net>
5) Re: Ivan
by kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
6) Introduction
by "Kathleen J. Spradlin-Miller" <kmiller@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>
7) Ivan
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
8) Re: Introduction
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
9) Here we go again
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
10) Re: Here we go again
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
11) Re: Introduction
by "Kathleen J. Spradlin-Miller" <kmiller@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>
12) Introduction cushings/pets
by David & Irene Scott <dgscott@frontier.net>
13) Re: Introduction cushings/pets
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
14) Re: Introduction cushings/pets
by LynneYoung@aol.com
15) Ivan--Kidney function
by Smedes/Mason <76255.1470@compuserve.com>
16) Re: Introduction cushings/pets
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
17) Ivan
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
18) Vincent's doing well so far...
by Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
19) Vincent
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
20) Seameal Powder
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
21) Re: Ivan
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
22) Re: Vincent's doing well so far...
by LynneYoung@aol.com
23) Re: Vet Books
by LynneYoung@aol.com
24) Re: Ivan--Kidney function
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
25) Re: Vincent's doing well so far...
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
26) Re: Introduction cushings/pets
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
27) Re: Vincent
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
28) Re: Seameal Powder
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
29) Re: Vincent's doing well so far...
by RitaSwim@aol.com
30) Re: IVAN
by Ruthann Peterson <rppete@execpc.com>
31) Ivan
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
32) Re: Ivan
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
33) Re: Vet Books
by Smedes/Mason <76255.1470@compuserve.com>
34) Re: Vet Books
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
35) Re: Introduction cushings/pets
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
36) Re: Introduction cushings/pets
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
37) Re: Vet Books
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
38) Re: Vet Books
by LynneYoung@aol.com
39) Re: Vincent's doing well so far...
by Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
40) Re[2]: Vet Books (fwd from Randy)
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
41) actigall
by David & Irene Scott <dgscott@frontier.net>
42) CoCo tested yesterday
by "Kathleen J. Spradlin-Miller" <kmiller@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>
43) vet books
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:39:10 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: RIMADYL--Correction
Message-ID: <1BB1A6736@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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To: ALL
We wanted quickly to correct some information we gave on 2/13 concerning
rimadyl: "We've heard that rimadyl can cause seizures in dogs with kidney
problems." After going through our notes again we find that this information
is incorrect.
This is what we know about rimadyl:

Rimadyl is a non-steroid anti-inflammatory drug used for arthritis. It is
cleared through the liver, so if liver values are high and the liver is in bad
shape, it is best not to use it. Otherwise rimadyl should not cause problems.
("Ask the Veterinarian", American Health Network on Cable TV, Jan.
1998.)

Our little Clea has both kidney & liver problems (as well as congestive heart
failure), and in thinking about the complex problems she has, including
arthritis, we confused the reasons why rimadyl would not be good for her. We
apologize about our miscommunication. We believe that you should never change
your pet's medication regime without consulting with your vet first. In
our case: since Clea seems to react poorly to most drugs, we don't give
rimadyl to her. It's a choice we have made, since she is not in any pain. She
doesn't race across the yard any more chasing squirrels, but does trot as she
barks at them every now and then She seems happy and content with that.
Give all the furry friends hugs for us. Maria and Tom.
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:47:52 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Liver Problems
Message-ID: <1DFAB3E1C@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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to: All

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with the drug called
"actigal"? It comes in 300 mg capsule form. In November, we started giving
Clea 1/10 of the capsule mixed with clinicare by syringe once every three days.
(Clea weighs 18 pounds.)

Her liver values greatly improved in a couple of weeks: ALT at 961 reduced
to 69 and ALKP 2529 reduced to 1546. (The best it's been in months.)

These levels have crept up gain this month, so we were thinking about
giving the drug to her more often and wonder if anyone who has used actigal
has experienced any bad side effects. We've had a good experience using this
drug but wonder if that is too good to be true. Thanks. Tom and Maria.
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:08:53 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Ivan
Message-ID: <9802160908.ZM6460@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Ivan joined his sister and brother at the Rainbow Bridge on Saturday. His
kidneys had failed and there was little more that we could do. He died with
fire in his eyes and a roar in his heart.

All of your warm wishes have been appreciated. I'll hang around for a while, I
still want to help others get their beloveds through this terrible disease.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:19:42 -0800
From: "Jenice Smith" <jsmith@bmi.net>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Ivan
Message-ID: <199802161821.KAA22068@smtp.bmi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I'm so very sorry. I know exactly what you are experiencing right now and
my heart goes out to you. They are just so very special to us and when we
lose them, we feel completely lost and empty. My grieve is very
recent.....I created this tribute to mine and invite you to visit.

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/MySweetMandy/index.html

Just know that we are thinking about you.

Jenice

----------
> From: Dillon Pyron <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
> To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> Subject: Ivan
> Date: Monday, February 16, 1998 7:08 AM
>
> Ivan joined his sister and brother at the Rainbow Bridge on Saturday.
His
> kidneys had failed and there was little more that we could do. He died
with
> fire in his eyes and a roar in his heart.
>
> All of your warm wishes have been appreciated. I'll hang around for a
while, I
> still want to help others get their beloveds through this terrible
disease.
>
>
> --
> dillon pyron
> dillon.pyron@amd.com
> Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
> Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:07:28 -0800 (PST)
From: kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Ivan
Message-ID: <199802161907.LAA25096@acme.csusb.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Oh Dillon, I'm so sorry.

At 09:08 AM 2/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Ivan joined his sister and brother at the Rainbow Bridge on Saturday. His
>kidneys had failed and there was little more that we could do. He died with
>fire in his eyes and a roar in his heart.
>
>All of your warm wishes have been appreciated. I'll hang around for a while, I
>still want to help others get their beloveds through this terrible disease.
>
>
>--
>dillon pyron
>dillon.pyron@amd.com
>Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
>Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart
>
>
--
>--------------------------------------------<
~Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!~ -dire straits
kathleen richards -- krichard@acme.csusb.edu or kilty@tstonramp.com

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:02:27 CST
From: "Kathleen J. Spradlin-Miller" <kmiller@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Introduction
Message-ID: <5CD737143A@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>

Hello Everyone!

Sorry for the length of this memo.

I've been asked to introduce myself, having just joined the list
yesterday.

I'm Jean Spradlin-Miller, Head of User Services at Sterne Library at
the University of Alabama at Birmingham. I have a toy poodle I
inherited from my grandmother about eight years ago. CoCo is 13
years old now, but quite lively and still thinks he's a puppy.

I started noticing symptoms about two or three years ago. CoCo came
down with some kind of autoimmune deficiency disease that caused
internal bleeding through his system. During his illness, he
became very weak and even had a couple of petit mal seizures. But we
caught it just in time, and there hasn't been a recurrance of the
disease.

But after his illness, I noticed that he started "marking
territory" in my apartment. I mentioned it to the vet, but we
attributed it to old age. Then he began to suffer significant hair
loss over his lower back. Dr. Weber diagnosed a thyroid problem, and
after treatment, CoCo's hair growth seemed to improve.

Then two months ago, he began to lose all his hair on his back. We
tried a protein supplement to his diet, but this didn't seem to help.
In the last month, I've begun to notice an increase in food and
water intake, and also in urination. Then last week he started
experiencing skin problems. I took CoCo for his shots on Friday, and
told Dr. Weber of the new problems. He told me that CoCo may have
Cushing's, and I'm to bring him in sometime this week for tests.

I don't know whether to be panicked or not. Except for the
abovementioned problems, there are no other symptoms -- no
weight gain, no swollen belly, etc. CoCo is still lively and
inquisitive and everything a toy poodle is supposed to be. I would
love any advice or positive feedback. I guess I just want some
reassurance that this isn't a death sentence.

Thanks in advance.

Jean Spradlin-Miller

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:35:30 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Ivan
Message-ID: <1AAAEA39B8@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Dear Dillon:
Tears are falling across the country for you. We were so terribly saddened
to hear the news of the loss of you loving little giant, Ivan.

Your heart must be split wide open. First Peter, now Ivan. And in such a
short period of time.

You have our deepest sympathy. Tom and Maria.
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:03:06 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <9802171103.ZM1626@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Cushings is very scary. It sounds like you have a good handle on it, and a
good vet who knows how to treat it. If he goes with Lysodren, the loading
phase may scare you some, as it seems very harsh on the little guys. And it
is. But there is a good treatment and once you are attacking it by whatever
means, the prognosis is good.

I'd suggest that you look into some of the homeopathic treatments as an adjunct
to any medicines, but discuss all of this with your vet.

Good luck and God bless you both.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:36:08 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Here we go again
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980217173608.0073fc6c@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well we are back from Auburn, Sunny was wonderful with the Doctors, she even
loved her night in the hotel, she got to share a king sized bed with her mum
and dad.Her test results on January 28 were Pre-ACTH 267 - Post ACTH 213,
that was high enough, well yesterday's results from Auburn Pre-ACTH 205 -
Post-ACTH 406 - and she is suppressed so we have to load her again this
week, 500mg a day and do another ACTH on Monday, poor baby, she has been
loaded now for several weeks, we have been told to have some prednisone on
hand in case she bottoms out which she did last year, let's hope not this
time, they also changed her diet from WD to RD, she weighed in at 19.8 and
they want her to get down a couple of pounds, she should be 15 but they do
not think that this will be possible, the bulge on her belly when she sits
which I always thought was a fat tummy is infact her liver, Dr. Chisholm
thinks Sunny is a good baby and is doing pretty good for her age. They also
did a urine culture which we do not have the results as of yet, obviously as
they have to culture it, but we will let you know as soon as we do. Thanks
for being there for us, Jackie, Randy, Sunny and Saphir
Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

Jacqueline P. Siniard
Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Materials Science Building Room C206
Huntsville, Alabama 35899
ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:03:26 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Here we go again
Message-ID: <9802171203.ZM3748@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

It certainly seems like she's going through quite a lot. Poor baby. And they
are so stoic about the whole thing.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:17:31 CST
From: "Kathleen J. Spradlin-Miller" <kmiller@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <60176F5F94@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>

Thanks for the kind words. We'll keep our fingers crossed until the
test results come back.

Jean Spradlin-Miller (and CoCo)

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:39:42 -0700
From: David & Irene Scott <dgscott@frontier.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Introduction cushings/pets
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980217103942.00796c30@frontier.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello,

Having just read Jean's introduction I feel a little remiss in not doing
the same, I joined the list about two weeks ago and have been reading the
postings, past and present, with interest.

My name is David Scott, I am a pharmacist/ business consultant/semi-retired
executive. I have a 10 year old Sheltie, Feisal, and we live on a small
ranch in the La Plata Mountains of Southwestern Colorado.

Feisal was diagnosed with Cushings last June, after a long and rather
frustrating disease elimination process. We initally choose the Lysodren
therapy route but switched to seligiline(anipryl) after several months of
Lysodren side effects and the hope that Anipryl would be better tolerated
by his system. It wasn't. Symptoms of lethary, weight gain, diarrhea,
vomiting, and lack of appetite continued. While he was on Lysodren his ACTH
tests were within acceptable ranges and his liver enzymes (ALKP & ALT)
dropped to a very high normal. But he went from going on 10 mile hikes to
barely being able to walk 200 yards. While on Anipryl his enzymes returned
to off the chart status and overall lab work was very discouraging. Based
on an abnormal bile acids test performed by our local vet, we traveled to
Albquerque last week to have an ultrasound, liver biopsy and liver c & s
performed. The ultrasound showed an enlarged liver, enlarged left adrenal,
distorted gall bladder and a hyperchoic biliary tract, all consistent with
a Cushings diagnosis. We await biopsy results before resuming any drug
therapy, ie, restaring on Lysodren, and adding Actigall for his gall
bladder and biliary tract involvement. Based on discussions with the vets
performing the liver biopsy, and Feisals "therapeutic failure" on Anipryl
we have ruled out Anipryl as an alternative. (Of note, seligiline is now
available generically to help reduce some of the expense of this disease).

We have not tried any homeopathic support at this point but are looking
into this possibility. Feisals diet was changed last year with the cushings
diagnosis and is a low-fat, high fiber food, (CNM-NF) which we have to coax
him to eat. Does anyone have a palatable diet that the liver can easily
handle?

Sorry for the long winded intro, keeping our paws crossed on the biopsy
results.

Dave Scott

Sorry to be so long winded

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:19:52 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction cushings/pets
Message-ID: <34EA0D08.38E7B5BA@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

test test test-- if this works I will post

David & Irene Scott wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Having just read Jean's introduction I feel a little remiss in not doing
> the same, I joined the list about two weeks ago and have been reading the
> postings, past and present, with interest.
>
> My name is David Scott, I am a pharmacist/ business consultant/semi-retired
> executive. I have a 10 year old Sheltie, Feisal, and we live on a small
> ranch in the La Plata Mountains of Southwestern Colorado.
>
> Feisal was diagnosed with Cushings last June, after a long and rather
> frustrating disease elimination process. We initally choose the Lysodren
> therapy route but switched to seligiline(anipryl) after several months of
> Lysodren side effects and the hope that Anipryl would be better tolerated
> by his system. It wasn't. Symptoms of lethary, weight gain, diarrhea,
> vomiting, and lack of appetite continued. While he was on Lysodren his ACTH
> tests were within acceptable ranges and his liver enzymes (ALKP & ALT)
> dropped to a very high normal. But he went from going on 10 mile hikes to
> barely being able to walk 200 yards. While on Anipryl his enzymes returned
> to off the chart status and overall lab work was very discouraging. Based
> on an abnormal bile acids test performed by our local vet, we traveled to
> Albquerque last week to have an ultrasound, liver biopsy and liver c & s
> performed. The ultrasound showed an enlarged liver, enlarged left adrenal,
> distorted gall bladder and a hyperchoic biliary tract, all consistent with
> a Cushings diagnosis. We await biopsy results before resuming any drug
> therapy, ie, restaring on Lysodren, and adding Actigall for his gall
> bladder and biliary tract involvement. Based on discussions with the vets
> performing the liver biopsy, and Feisals "therapeutic failure" on Anipryl
> we have ruled out Anipryl as an alternative. (Of note, seligiline is now
> available generically to help reduce some of the expense of this disease).
>
> We have not tried any homeopathic support at this point but are looking
> into this possibility. Feisals diet was changed last year with the cushings
> diagnosis and is a low-fat, high fiber food, (CNM-NF) which we have to coax
> him to eat. Does anyone have a palatable diet that the liver can easily
> handle?
>
> Sorry for the long winded intro, keeping our paws crossed on the biopsy
> results.
>
> Dave Scott
>
> Sorry to be so long winded

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:12:56 EST
From: LynneYoung@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction cushings/pets
Message-ID: <1b103c7a.34ea197a@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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HI.. having a 7 yr old sheltie who is doing so well on lysadren.. with the
addition of 10 gr of shark cartilage every day.. mixed with her food .. she
loves it..I moisten with a little nonfat chicken broth...she loves the fish
taste... the vet who recommended it said it has the ability to jkeep the pit
lesion from growing because it inhibits blood vessel growth... something's
working, cause Heaven is absolutely symptom free, and her ACTH was off the
chart to start.. hope this helps..
Lynne Young Wilmington DE

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:43:34 -0500
From: Smedes/Mason <76255.1470@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Ivan--Kidney function
Message-ID: <199802171844_MC2-33B8-BA0B@compuserve.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Dear Gang,

I have been away in Hawaii, celebrating my lovely wife's 40th BD, and was
overwhelmed with the heap of messages from this group on my return.

I cannot keep up with all of them, but felt I should respond to this one.

> Make sure you know what's going into Ivan's IV. Some diuretics that are
bad
>for the kidneys: furosemide, mannitol, thiazides. B Complex vitamins
throught the >IV can sometimes cause more harm than good. (Textbook of
Veterinary
>Internal Med., Ettinger & Feldman, 1995).
>Hugs & kisses and our prayers for Ivan.
>Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
>E-mail us at trw@virginia.ed

I appreciate the comments about not changing any medications without
consulting your veterinarian, but I would really caution folks about
quoting sources like Ettinger's Internal Medicine textbook. It's tough
enough for your Veterinarian to sort through some of the medical
mumbo-jumbo in textbooks, even after the hundred years of Vet school. For
someone not trained in Veterinary Medicine, a "little knowledge" can be a
potentially bad thing.

The comment about diuretics is typical about how things can be taken out of
context. "Some diuretics that are bad for the kidneys, furosemide,
mannitol, thiazides" is a great example. Those 3 drugs make up about 95% of
the diuretics used. ALL diuretics affect the kidney's ability to
concentrate urine..... that's how they work. A diuretic is meant to
decrease body water content, and short of squeezing it out like a sponge
(I've tried that, and it kinda hurts), the urine is about the only drain
spout in the body. None of those drugs is intrinsically toxic to the
kidneys (neither, by the way, is Lysodren). OVERDOSAGE of these drugs can,
however, lead to severe electrolyte disturbances and dehydration, and these
states, in turn, can damage the kidneys.

One of the most toxic substances on earth, which at high dosages can kill
almost any form of life on the planet, is table salt - yet you just had
some on your fries. It is not the drug, but how it is used. Your
veterinarian is trained to use these drugs properly. I think being
informed about the pros and cons of any form of therapy is the right of all
pet owners. However, mis-information about the effects or side effects of
medications only serves to confuse and frighten people.

Folks, this chat group is supposed to be a support group for people with
pets sharing a common problem. Don't go reading veterinary textbooks then
misquote what is written in them. If people on this forum need veterinary
advice, talk to your Vet. If you are not comfortable with that advice, get
another opinion. Anyone who would like to see a specialist for a second
opinion, ask your family practitioner for a referral or drop me a line, and
I have a world-wide listing of Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialists,
and we'll find one near you.

I see Veterinarians who are tempted to give human medical advice, and I
always tell them "don't do it, you can't afford the malpractice
insurance!". I'd say the same to any of you about veterinary medical
advice. I know that you do it out of caring so much for your pet and
empathizing with others on this list. I would ask that you be a friend,
and advise folks to get qualified veterinary advice.

OK, I'm back down off my soapbox.

Best of luck to all.

Cheers,

Dr. Robert A. Mason, BSc, DVM, DVSc.
Diplomate ABVP
Diplomate ACVIM

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:55:13 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction cushings/pets
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980217175513.006fc3a0@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

David and Irene-

A very warm welcome to our discussion group! You've joined the group at
perhaps the darkest of times for us, as we've lost several very important
members of "the family" recently. But, there are many more pups who are
doing well, and there's a wealth of new information and experience being
posted daily.

I'm especially excited to read that you have a pharmacy background. I
expect you'll be able to answer many of the drug-related questions that we
lay folks are clueless about!

Thanks for sharing your experience with Feisal. I'm curious about the
assymetric adrenal glands. If I remember (and understand!) correctly, dogs
with Cushing's of pituitary origin typically have symmetrically enlarged
adrenal glands. Might assymetric glands suggest an adrenal tumor or has
your vet ruled that out?

Again, welcome to the group. Give Feisal a good cuddling for me!

-Leslie

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:10:58 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Ivan
Message-ID: <34EA1901.9BC5F5D@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dillon.....

Just finished reading about Ivan and am trying to type between the
tears. You and Ivan were our "backbone of strength" during Schonus'
"loading phase". Our hearts are with you.

Linda & Schonus

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:02:50 -0600
From: Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Vincent's doing well so far...
Message-ID: <34EA252A.6575@sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi everyone,

My Springer Vincent is on day 5 of his "loading phase" of Lysodren. So
far, so good. No symptoms, but then he didn't have many of the classic
symptoms of Cushing's to begin with. He didn't drink or urinate a lot,
and there was no pot belly and just a few pounds of weight gain. The
only skin problem was a bit of a rash on his privates and a little
dandruff. Actually, after doing some research on Cushing's I'm very
impressed that the vet was able to diagnose his condition from what
little I've mentioned and an ear infection.

What I wanted to ask y'all, though, is how quickly will the symptoms of
"Lysodren overload" come on, if they do at all? I've been off work the
first 5 days of his "loading phase". Should I take off the rest of the
week, or do you think coming home at lunch to check on him will be
sufficient? I guess I'm wondering if he does react, is he's likely to
get bad so fast that I should be here all of the time this first week,
in case he needs prednisone?

Thanks for any advice, and good luck to everyone and their pups. After
studying the last few months of your postings (and picking up a lot of
great information) I feel like I know you all already!

Sandy and Vincent

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:36:07 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Vincent
Message-ID: <34EA1EE6.11D3C7C5@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sandy....

Hi there....my Schonus did well with his back-to-back "loading phases"
but during his second week of maintenance he slipped a little. I think
you should ask your Vet as to what to be aware of but Schonus started
getting really lethargic the first day..that evening he got the
"shivers". The next morning he was almost completely nonresponsive and
wouldn't eat. We then headed directly to our Vet who took him in right
away...gave him a shot of Prednisone and we were on our way. He finally
came around later that evening and wanted to play! Our Vet thought he
had given us a prescription for Prednisone to have on hand at home so we
didn't leave his office without one this time "just in case".

Linda & Schonus

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:40:01 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: "Cushing's e-mail" <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Seameal Powder
Message-ID: <34EA1FD0.AFDCEC9E@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Everyone....

Just finished a week long bout with the flu and just finished "catching
up". My thoughts and prayers are with Kathleen and Dillon.

Has anyone ever used Seameal powder in conjunction with Lysodren? It is
made by Solid Gold. I checked with my Vet and he said it couldn't
hurt. I was just wondering what kind of results were achieved and how
long it was before any changes were noticed.

Linda & Schonus

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:59:13 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Ivan
Message-ID: <34EA6A9D.3A55F4C6@cynet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

dillon,

My thoughts are with you. Thank you for staying with the list and
helping others, and keeping a positive attitude.
Judy

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 05:57:32 EST
From: LynneYoung@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vincent's doing well so far...
Message-ID: <4d528f92.34eabe9e@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Hi.. Heaven had no symptoms thru her loading, but our vet did it VERY slowly
which was more expensive for sure with all the tests, but if you can handle it
that way.. you might tell your vet...I realoze that we might have been lucky,
catching it so early, but she had been urinating in her sleep for at least 6
months before we changed vets and got on track... good luck Lynne

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 06:06:04 EST
From: LynneYoung@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vet Books
Message-ID: <38596419.34eac09e@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Your advice on reading vet books is well meant i'm sure and you are no doubt
knowledgeable, however, your advice on not reading vet books is demeaning. Not
every vet is up on every breed, or info. I have saved my dogs much suffering
and would not have known enough to change vets and get heaven's Cushings
diagnosed if I had not read everything I could get my hands on.. My vet wanted
to treat her with hormones for a while to see what was causing her
urinating...just as in human medicine, an informed patient that can work with
the practitioner is the best combination. Every dialig on this list is
helpful if not just to explain, and debunk advice we hear. No flames
intended, but please don't talk down to us.
Lynne Young

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:51:49 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Ivan--Kidney function
Message-ID: <9802180851.ZM16591@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thank you, Dr Mason. Dr. Smith has been practicing since 1965, and was LBJs
vet. Dr. Riddle since 1967. So the experience was there and we trusted them
implicitly. Add to that two recent graduates, with all the new knowledge, and
we had a team that we had faith in. But sometimes, all the skill, knowledge
and faith isn't enough. I'll bet those are the days when you wish you were a
taxi driver.

Thank you to all the vets, everywhere.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:56:42 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vincent's doing well so far...
Message-ID: <9802180856.ZM16742@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

My guess (guess only, talk to your vet) is that you'll probably see refusal to
eat as your first indicator. That was the case with Ivan on his first and
second run. The third time through, we just ran it for 5 days and quit.

Love and good luck to all.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:58:38 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction cushings/pets
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980218145838.00709cb4@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:45:28 -0600
>From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@redstone.army.mil>
>To: siniardj@email.uah.edu
>Subject: Re: Introduction cushings/pets
>
>
> Perhaps everyone might want to try **NO FAT** Chicken Broth mixed
> with the biscuits left to soak for a little while, then wet food mixed
> in too. We noticed when we did this for Sunny her **LIKING** for the
> food increased. Although, she has never really experienced a change,
> but with the new RD food who knows. Someone else had written in about
> the Chicken Broth thing, but with all the new people coming on board,
> it is worth saying again. We use Campbell's Chicken Broth, because it
> is **NO FAT**, which is extremely important that our babies not GAIN
> weight, while we are trying to trim them down. Anyway it's worth a
> try.
>
> Randy, Jackie, Sunny and Saphir.
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Introduction cushings/pets
>Author: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu at Internet
>Date: 2/17/98 10:39 AM
>
>
>Hello,
>
>Having just read Jean's introduction I feel a little remiss in not doing
>the same, I joined the list about two weeks ago and have been reading the
>postings, past and present, with interest.
>
>My name is David Scott, I am a pharmacist/ business consultant/semi-retired
>executive. I have a 10 year old Sheltie, Feisal, and we live on a small
>ranch in the La Plata Mountains of Southwestern Colorado.
>
>Feisal was diagnosed with Cushings last June, after a long and rather
>frustrating disease elimination process. We initally choose the Lysodren
>therapy route but switched to seligiline(anipryl) after several months of
>Lysodren side effects and the hope that Anipryl would be better tolerated
>by his system. It wasn't. Symptoms of lethary, weight gain, diarrhea,
>vomiting, and lack of appetite continued. While he was on Lysodren his ACTH
>tests were within acceptable ranges and his liver enzymes (ALKP & ALT)
>dropped to a very high normal. But he went from going on 10 mile hikes to
>barely being able to walk 200 yards. While on Anipryl his enzymes returned
>to off the chart status and overall lab work was very discouraging. Based
>on an abnormal bile acids test performed by our local vet, we traveled to
>Albquerque last week to have an ultrasound, liver biopsy and liver c & s
>performed. The ultrasound showed an enlarged liver, enlarged left adrenal,
>distorted gall bladder and a hyperchoic biliary tract, all consistent with
>a Cushings diagnosis. We await biopsy results before resuming any drug
>therapy, ie, restaring on Lysodren, and adding Actigall for his gall
>bladder and biliary tract involvement. Based on discussions with the vets
>performing the liver biopsy, and Feisals "therapeutic failure" on Anipryl
>we have ruled out Anipryl as an alternative. (Of note, seligiline is now
>available generically to help reduce some of the expense of this disease).
>
>We have not tried any homeopathic support at this point but are looking into
>this possibility. Feisals diet was changed last year with the cushings
>diagnosis and is a low-fat, high fiber food, (CNM-NF) which we have to coax
>him to eat. Does anyone have a palatable diet that the liver can easily
>handle?
>
>Sorry for the long winded intro, keeping our paws crossed on the biopsy
>results.
>
>
>Dave Scott
>
>
>Sorry to be so long winded
>
>
>Received: from michp758.redstone.army.mil (136.205.10.78) by
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>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:39:42 -0700
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>From: David & Irene Scott <dgscott@frontier.net>
>To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
>Subject: Introduction cushings/pets
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>
>
Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:59:45 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vincent
Message-ID: <9802180859.ZM16767@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

We always had a bottle with 3-4 prednisone in it. Our vet would just give us
some new stuff every year and we'd toss the old. All at no charge. This is
just one of the little things you live with with a Cushnoid.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:03:12 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Seameal Powder
Message-ID: <9802180903.ZM16979@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Feb 17, 7:40pm, L Boyce wrote:
> Subject: Seameal Powder
> Hi Everyone....
>
> Just finished a week long bout with the flu and just finished "catching
> up". My thoughts and prayers are with Kathleen and Dillon.
>
> Has anyone ever used Seameal powder in conjunction with Lysodren? It is
> made by Solid Gold. I checked with my Vet and he said it couldn't
> hurt. I was just wondering what kind of results were achieved and how
> long it was before any changes were noticed.
>
> Linda & Schonus
>
>-- End of excerpt from L Boyce

I'd say do it if your vet thinks it's okay. Despite recent rantings to the
contrary, I do support a multiple approach to medicine. Ivan recieved a
regimine of drugs, but also vitamins and other supplements. For myself, I've
been using Vit C & Zinc and Saw Palmetto in addition to antibiotics for "that
guy problem". :-) It seems to have worked quite well.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:25:51 EST
From: RitaSwim@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vincent's doing well so far...
Message-ID: <668e3af6.34eafd81@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I, too, have a dog (Chloe, 14) who is on day 5 of the "loading" phase and was
wondering about the same issues you are. I am wary of the drug reaction and
don't want her to be along at any time during this first 7 days. Maybe I'm
being paranoid, but then, I suspect each dog is different and I want to be
home if she does have a reaction. Hopefully question will prompt to answers
for us both. Good luck with Vincent!

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:29:31 -0600
From: Ruthann Peterson <rppete@execpc.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: IVAN
Message-ID: <34EB0C6B.D2E7E043@execpc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Dillon -- Please stay with us as long as you can endure. Your advice has always
> been so caring and accurate. Thank you, and know that you have the sympathy of
> all on this list who are fighting bravely against this enemy of our loved ones.
> -- Ruthann

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:02:31 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Ivan
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980218170231.0070f57c@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dillon, I am so sorry that I have not let you know sooner how we feel about
Ivan,we seem to have been so wrapped up in Sunny these last few days, but
please know that we miss him to even tho we never met, tears have been shed
for him and others, please stay with us , we need you and I mean that, you
are an inspiration to us, he is enjoying playing in Rainbow Bridge now with
his brother and sister. Jackie, Randy, Sunny and Saphir
Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:23:14 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Ivan
Message-ID: <9802181123.ZM22299@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thank you. I hope it is many years before Sunny meets Ivan, but when they do,
I think they will know each other instantly.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:45:54 -0500
From: Smedes/Mason <76255.1470@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Vet Books
Message-ID: <199802181646_MC2-33D1-5EC4@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dear Lynn,

I have never intentionally "talked down" to anyone in my career. I would
ask that you re-read my message. If you still hear a derogatory tone to
it, then I must completely apologize to you, as it was never my intent.

I have, however, seen far more harm come from partially informed opinion
than I have from true grasp of a subject - both from lay people and,
unfortunately, from my colleagues. I am completely supportive of my clients
knowing absolutely as much about their pet's disease as possible, and I
encourage them to read up on it as much as possible. The danger, however,
is unguided reading or misinterpretation of what was written.

I could never open a book of tax codes and get a good grasp of what I was
reading and how to apply it. However, if there is a specific section that
applies to me, I would ask my accountant for a specific reference to read,
and then I would check with him to be certain I had read it correctly. I
think it is prudent to do the same with medical information.

e-mail and the Internet are wonderful amazing things, but I have had many
more unhappy circumstances of clients changing medications or adding new
ones based on "hearsay" (I'm not even certain that is the correct syntax
for cyber-information) they got off the web, rather than advice they got
from their Veterinarian.

I was asked to participate in this forum as a non-owner (I have 2 dogs, but
thankfully, neither suffers from Cushing's), and to periodically interject
a medical opinion where appropriate. I am sorry if my opinion offended
anyone, but it is still my opinion. I completely agree with Lynn that
informed owners and practitioners make the best team. I do not agree,
however, that misquoting information from medical textbooks helps to debunk
anything.

Thanks for your comments, and best of luck with your pets health.

Cheers,

Robert A. Mason BSc, DVM, DVSc
Diplomate ABVP, ACVIM

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:45:36 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vet Books
Message-ID: <34EB648F.570AE2DE@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I read the original post from Dr. Mason and I never got the impression that he
was talking down to anyone--I thought the post was informative and well
intentioned, and I am glad to know that he is arround. Thank you Dr. Mason for
you input and views.

Henry Bliley, Reston, VA

Smedes/Mason wrote:

> Dear Lynn,
>
> I have never intentionally "talked down" to anyone in my career. I would
> ask that you re-read my message. If you still hear a derogatory tone to
> it, then I must completely apologize to you, as it was never my intent.
>
> I have, however, seen far more harm come from partially informed opinion
> than I have from true grasp of a subject - both from lay people and,
> unfortunately, from my colleagues. I am completely supportive of my clients
> knowing absolutely as much about their pet's disease as possible, and I
> encourage them to read up on it as much as possible. The danger, however,
> is unguided reading or misinterpretation of what was written.
>
> I could never open a book of tax codes and get a good grasp of what I was
> reading and how to apply it. However, if there is a specific section that
> applies to me, I would ask my accountant for a specific reference to read,
> and then I would check with him to be certain I had read it correctly. I
> think it is prudent to do the same with medical information.
>
> e-mail and the Internet are wonderful amazing things, but I have had many
> more unhappy circumstances of clients changing medications or adding new
> ones based on "hearsay" (I'm not even certain that is the correct syntax
> for cyber-information) they got off the web, rather than advice they got
> from their Veterinarian.
>
> I was asked to participate in this forum as a non-owner (I have 2 dogs, but
> thankfully, neither suffers from Cushing's), and to periodically interject
> a medical opinion where appropriate. I am sorry if my opinion offended
> anyone, but it is still my opinion. I completely agree with Lynn that
> informed owners and practitioners make the best team. I do not agree,
> however, that misquoting information from medical textbooks helps to debunk
> anything.
>
> Thanks for your comments, and best of luck with your pets health.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robert A. Mason BSc, DVM, DVSc
> Diplomate ABVP, ACVIM

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:47:30 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction cushings/pets
Message-ID: <34EB6501.D8455AF2@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

perhaps no "fat", but probably wayyyy tooooo much SALT!!!

Jackie Siniard wrote:

> >Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:45:28 -0600
> >From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@redstone.army.mil>
> >To: siniardj@email.uah.edu
> >Subject: Re: Introduction cushings/pets
> >
> >
> > Perhaps everyone might want to try **NO FAT** Chicken Broth mixed
> > with the biscuits left to soak for a little while, then wet food mixed
> > in too. We noticed when we did this for Sunny her **LIKING** for the
> > food increased. Although, she has never really experienced a change,
> > but with the new RD food who knows. Someone else had written in about
> > the Chicken Broth thing, but with all the new people coming on board,
> > it is worth saying again. We use Campbell's Chicken Broth, because it
> > is **NO FAT**, which is extremely important that our babies not GAIN
> > weight, while we are trying to trim them down. Anyway it's worth a
> > try.
> >
> > Randy, Jackie, Sunny and Saphir.
> >
> >
> >______________________________ Reply Separator
> _________________________________
> >Subject: Introduction cushings/pets
> >Author: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu at Internet
> >Date: 2/17/98 10:39 AM
> >
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >Having just read Jean's introduction I feel a little remiss in not doing
> >the same, I joined the list about two weeks ago and have been reading the
> >postings, past and present, with interest.
> >
> >My name is David Scott, I am a pharmacist/ business consultant/semi-retired
> >executive. I have a 10 year old Sheltie, Feisal, and we live on a small
> >ranch in the La Plata Mountains of Southwestern Colorado.
> >
> >Feisal was diagnosed with Cushings last June, after a long and rather
> >frustrating disease elimination process. We initally choose the Lysodren
> >therapy route but switched to seligiline(anipryl) after several months of
> >Lysodren side effects and the hope that Anipryl would be better tolerated
> >by his system. It wasn't. Symptoms of lethary, weight gain, diarrhea,
> >vomiting, and lack of appetite continued. While he was on Lysodren his ACTH
> >tests were within acceptable ranges and his liver enzymes (ALKP & ALT)
> >dropped to a very high normal. But he went from going on 10 mile hikes to
> >barely being able to walk 200 yards. While on Anipryl his enzymes returned
> >to off the chart status and overall lab work was very discouraging. Based
> >on an abnormal bile acids test performed by our local vet, we traveled to
> >Albquerque last week to have an ultrasound, liver biopsy and liver c & s
> >performed. The ultrasound showed an enlarged liver, enlarged left adrenal,
> >distorted gall bladder and a hyperchoic biliary tract, all consistent with
> >a Cushings diagnosis. We await biopsy results before resuming any drug
> >therapy, ie, restaring on Lysodren, and adding Actigall for his gall
> >bladder and biliary tract involvement. Based on discussions with the vets
> >performing the liver biopsy, and Feisals "therapeutic failure" on Anipryl
> >we have ruled out Anipryl as an alternative. (Of note, seligiline is now
> >available generically to help reduce some of the expense of this disease).
> >
> >We have not tried any homeopathic support at this point but are looking into
> >this possibility. Feisals diet was changed last year with the cushings
> >diagnosis and is a low-fat, high fiber food, (CNM-NF) which we have to coax
> >him to eat. Does anyone have a palatable diet that the liver can easily
> >handle?
> >
> >Sorry for the long winded intro, keeping our paws crossed on the biopsy
> >results.
> >
> >
> >Dave Scott
> >
> >
> >Sorry to be so long winded
> >
> >
> >Received: from michp758.redstone.army.mil (136.205.10.78) by
> >ccppo.redstone.army.mil with SMTP
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> PAA10970
> > for <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:43:05 -0600
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> > for <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:42:59 -0700
> >Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980217103942.00796c30@frontier.net>
> >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:39:42 -0700
> >Reply-To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> >Sender: owner-cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> >Precedence: bulk
> >From: David & Irene Scott <dgscott@frontier.net>
> >To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> >Subject: Introduction cushings/pets
> >Mime-Version: 1.0
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> >
> >
> >
> Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
> worthwhile. - Franklin Jones
>
> Jacqueline P. Siniard
> Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
> The University of Alabama in Huntsville
> Materials Science Building Room C206
> Huntsville, Alabama 35899
> ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
> e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:57:05 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction cushings/pets
Message-ID: <9802181657.ZM5093@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>perhaps no "fat", but probably wayyyy tooooo much SALT!!!

Actually, we found a broth that was low fat (not fat free) and sodium free.

Note that fat is where the flavor is, so a little fat can sometimes help a
finicky eater get motivated. Not lots, but a little. But listen to "and large
fries" preach :-)

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:57:11 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vet Books
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980218225711.0071fa24@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I am in agreement as well, welcome aboard Dr. Mason. Jackie, Randy, Sunny
and Saphir.

At 05:45 PM 2/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I read the original post from Dr. Mason and I never got the impression that he
>was talking down to anyone--I thought the post was informative and well
>intentioned, and I am glad to know that he is arround. Thank you Dr. Mason for
>you input and views.
>
>Henry Bliley, Reston, VA
>
>Smedes/Mason wrote:
>
>> Dear Lynn,
>>
>> I have never intentionally "talked down" to anyone in my career. I would
>> ask that you re-read my message. If you still hear a derogatory tone to
>> it, then I must completely apologize to you, as it was never my intent.
>>
>> I have, however, seen far more harm come from partially informed opinion
>> than I have from true grasp of a subject - both from lay people and,
>> unfortunately, from my colleagues. I am completely supportive of my clients
>> knowing absolutely as much about their pet's disease as possible, and I
>> encourage them to read up on it as much as possible. The danger, however,
>> is unguided reading or misinterpretation of what was written.
>>
>> I could never open a book of tax codes and get a good grasp of what I was
>> reading and how to apply it. However, if there is a specific section that
>> applies to me, I would ask my accountant for a specific reference to read,
>> and then I would check with him to be certain I had read it correctly. I
>> think it is prudent to do the same with medical information.
>>
>> e-mail and the Internet are wonderful amazing things, but I have had many
>> more unhappy circumstances of clients changing medications or adding new
>> ones based on "hearsay" (I'm not even certain that is the correct syntax
>> for cyber-information) they got off the web, rather than advice they got
>> from their Veterinarian.
>>
>> I was asked to participate in this forum as a non-owner (I have 2 dogs, but
>> thankfully, neither suffers from Cushing's), and to periodically interject
>> a medical opinion where appropriate. I am sorry if my opinion offended
>> anyone, but it is still my opinion. I completely agree with Lynn that
>> informed owners and practitioners make the best team. I do not agree,
>> however, that misquoting information from medical textbooks helps to debunk
>> anything.
>>
>> Thanks for your comments, and best of luck with your pets health.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Robert A. Mason BSc, DVM, DVSc
>> Diplomate ABVP, ACVIM
>
>
>
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:29:10 EST
From: LynneYoung@aol.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vet Books
Message-ID: <4f5e1f44.34eb6ec9@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Dr. Mason, I appreciate your comments, and meant well by mine. Unfortunately
I have had too many horror stories lately of things that never should have
happened if the dog owners ( and one was one of my own puppy homes, and the
dog died) had read more, understood better how to describe the symptoms, knew
more what to look for, and questioned some vet practices.
I have always read what I could, questioned my vet when I didn't understand
something, and sometimes had to disagree and insist on testing vs waiting, or
a visit today vs one 2 days from now. I have found a vet who appreciates my
needing to understand and be part of the treatment process, and my dogs have
benefited from the partnership. I think it is worse for people to listen only
to hearsay and not read.
Thanks for being part of our list and helping us to understand more about
Cushings.
Lynne Young, Chalfonte Shelties
Wilmington DE

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:33:02 -0600
From: Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vincent's doing well so far...
Message-ID: <34EB7DBE.3C26@sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

LynneYoung@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi.. Heaven had no symptoms thru her loading, but our vet did it VERY slowly which was more expensive for sure with all the tests, but if you can handle it that way

Hi Lynne -

I'm hoping this is what my vet has in mind as well. I'll ask him about
it Friday when we go for the blood test. He said he had given him a
pretty low dose, since Vincent isn't really *feeling* bad right now.

Wishes for continued good health to Heaven.

Sandy and Vincent

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:53:41 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Vet Books (fwd from Randy)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980219095341.0075a480@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Reply posted for Randy:

>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:00:26 -0600
>From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@redstone.army.mil>
>Subject: Re[2]: Vet Books

> We recently were recently told by a person whom I wish to remain
>anonymous, that we should change Sunny from Lysodren to Anipryl. Since we
had
>read so much in this forum about Anipryl we thought it might be a good
thing.
>However, our previous experiences told us to ask the experts. So when we
went
>to Auburn University, we asked Dr. Chisolm, current Cushings' spec at
Auburn.
>And her first words were "you didn't did you?" Relief was her next
expression
>when we told her we hadn't. She told us that Anipryl would have made it
>impossible to ever tell which type of dependency Sunny had. She is however
>definitely Pituatary Dependent. So we are loading her still as we have
>previously told you.
>
> My main point here is that don't assume any one person knows
everything
>-- it's always best to ask as many people as possible -- especially
experts in
>the field.
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: Vet Books
>Author: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu at Internet
>Date: 2/18/98 4:45 PM
>
>
>Dear Lynn,
>
>I have never intentionally "talked down" to anyone in my career. I would
>ask that you re-read my message. If you still hear a derogatory tone to
>it, then I must completely apologize to you, as it was never my intent.
>
>I have, however, seen far more harm come from partially informed opinion
>than I have from true grasp of a subject - both from lay people and,
>unfortunately, from my colleagues. I am completely supportive of my clients
>knowing absolutely as much about their pet's disease as possible, and I
>encourage them to read up on it as much as possible. The danger, however,
>is unguided reading or misinterpretation of what was written.
>
>I could never open a book of tax codes and get a good grasp of what I was
>reading and how to apply it. However, if there is a specific section that
>applies to me, I would ask my accountant for a specific reference to read,
>and then I would check with him to be certain I had read it correctly. I
>think it is prudent to do the same with medical information.
>
>e-mail and the Internet are wonderful amazing things, but I have had many
>more unhappy circumstances of clients changing medications or adding new
>ones based on "hearsay" (I'm not even certain that is the correct syntax
>for cyber-information) they got off the web, rather than advice they got
>from their Veterinarian.
>
>I was asked to participate in this forum as a non-owner (I have 2 dogs, but
>thankfully, neither suffers from Cushing's), and to periodically interject
>a medical opinion where appropriate. I am sorry if my opinion offended
>anyone, but it is still my opinion. I completely agree with Lynn that
>informed owners and practitioners make the best team. I do not agree,
>however, that misquoting information from medical textbooks helps to debunk
>anything.
>
>Thanks for your comments, and best of luck with your pets health.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Robert A. Mason BSc, DVM, DVSc
>Diplomate ABVP, ACVIM
>
>Received: from michp758.redstone.army.mil (136.205.10.78) by
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>

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:25:33 -0700
From: David & Irene Scott <dgscott@frontier.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: actigall
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980219182533.0079f100@frontier.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks for the kind words of welcome to the group.

The chicken broth tip was wonderful, I found a low fat, low sodium brand
and Feisal loves it. He has cleaned the bowl for the first time in weeks.
THANKS.

Leslie had a question about Feisal's enlarged left adrenal gland. In the
ultrasound the left was the only one that could be seen, since the enlarged
liver obstructed the view of the other one, so we aren't sure of the
symmetry.

While we still await results of the liver bioposy, Feisal started on
Actigall today in an attempt to resolve his "sludged" gall bladder and
biliary tract. The drug is a bile acid that (hopefully) will change his
bile from cholesterol-precipitating to cholesterol-solubilizing, and help
create an environment to "un-sludge" the gall bladder (Sounds more like
Drano doesn't it). I don't expect quick results, it's a slow acting drug
that takes about 3 weeks to even achieve a steady state. The side effects
also do not appear intimidating, I've known several humans that have been
on Actigall for long periods of time and successfully avoided surgery for
gall stones with few side effects (and we humans do complain more than
dogs). Has anyone had any experience with the drug, and if so, for how
long?

Thanks again for the kind words of welcome to your group.
Dave (& Feisal)

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:41:27 CST
From: "Kathleen J. Spradlin-Miller" <kmiller@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: CoCo tested yesterday
Message-ID: <A4801863A7@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>

Hi everyone!

CoCo was tested yesterday. Dr. Weber said he was really good, except
for killing a rottweiler (ha! ha! -- CoCo only weighs 7 pounds). I
express mailed the samples to Auburn, and we should know definitely
by Monday at the latest if he has Cushing's. Dr. Weber seems pretty
confident that we can get this under control. He's really good about
catching things like this in the early stages.

Thanks to all for the kind words and welcomes!

Jean (and CoCo)

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:15:45 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: vet books
Message-ID: <6758536305@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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If any is interested in ordering a copy of the *Textbook of Veterinary
Internal Medicine*, see our note dated 10/10/97 ("Midnight Reading"), which can
be found in the Archives/Digests for the Cushings Listserv (Cushings Pets
Digest 3), which can be accessed through the Cushings Web Page.
Chapters in this text which we found to be especially informative:

Chapter 51 (Vol. 1): "Nuitritional Management of Hepatic and Endocrine
Diseases" by P. Jane Armstrong and Sherri L. Ihle.

Chapter 52 (Vol. 1): "Dietary Modification in Cardiac Diseases" by Mark L.
Morris, Jr., and Stephen J. Ettinger.

Chapter 53 (Vol. 1): "Dietary Considerations for Urogenital Problems" by
Scott a . Brown, Delmar R. Finco, and Jeanne A. Barsanti.

Chapter 118 (Vol. 2): "Hyperadrenocorticism" by Edward C. Feldman.

(Ask your Vet if you can raid his/her library.)

Tom and Maria.
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu