Cushing's Disease/Syndrome | Electronic Forum Digest 24

CUSHINGS-PETS Digest 24

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) FWD: Re: how's Bo?
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
2) FWD from rec.pets.dogs.health re: Lysodren
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
3) Re: FWD from rec.pets.dogs.health re: Lysodren
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
4) Good News
by "Kathleen J. Spradlin-Miller" <kmiller@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>
5) Re: Good News
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
6) Re: Good News
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
7) Re: FWD from rec.pets.dogs.health re: Lysodren
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
8) Poor Sunny
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
9) Re: Poor Sunny (fwd)
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
10) Vincent update/vaccination question
by Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
11) Re: Vincent update/vaccination question
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
12) Re: Vincent update/vaccination question
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
13) Introduction
by Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
14) Re: Introduction
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
15) Re: Introduction
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
16) Re: Introduction
by Spot210 <Spot210@aol.com>
17) Poor Sunny
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
18) Introduction
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
19) Re: Introduction
by RitaSwim <RitaSwim@aol.com>
20) Anipryl results after 3 days?
by Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
21) Sunny
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
22) Re: Poor Sunny
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
23) Sunny
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
24) Re: Introduction
by DAOsborn@softart.com
25) Re: Sunny
by Spot210 <Spot210@aol.com>
26) Re: Sunny
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
27) heart worm meds
by scott <scott@adams.net>
28) Re: Sunny
by hilbro@juno.com (H. Brown)
29) Re: Sunny
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
30) Re: heart worm meds
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
31) Re: heart worm meds
by Jeri <kurvenal@ameritech.net>
32) Re: Sunny
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
33) Re: Sunny
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
34) feeling helpless
by KAMCK@centuryinter.net
35) Re: feeling helpless
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
36) Re: feeling helpless
by MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
37) Re: feeling helpless
by Spot210 <Spot210@aol.com>
38) Re: feeling helpless
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
39) Update on Chloe
by RitaSwim <RitaSwim@aol.com>
40) Re: Update on Chloe
by scott <scott@adams.net>
41) Re: Update on Chloe
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
42) Re: feeling helpless
by Melissa Smith <nothingwitty@earthlink.net>
43) Feeling Helpless
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>

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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:21:10 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: FWD: Re: how's Bo?
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980302092110.00707e30@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:22:10 -0500
>From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
>Subject: Re: how's Bo?
>
>Hi Leslie,
>I guess this message is going to you alone, but perhaps you can repost
>it to group. Thank you for your concern about Bo. He does seem to be
>doing well, I have to think about getting him retested though, since
>it's been several months. His former vet "Cushing's specialist" left and
>I have to fine another, and also set aside the money to do it. He does
>seem to be fine physically, I worry some about personality changes - he
>is less affectionate and interested in play things like balls, but still
>quite interested in dog treats!. His Cushing's symptoms have totally
>abated, and I am giving him a relatively small dose of Lysodren twice
>weekly. He is going on 11 years old, so some of the personality changes
>may be just due to aging.
>
>Our other news is that we are now seven (two humans, three cats and two
>dogs.) In December, we adopted Gordie, a now eight-month old Gordon
>Setter puppy that my partner Diane's father had bought and couldn't
>handle. Since her dad is in his 80s, a sporting dog puppy was definitely
>a bad decision, but one he would not be disuaded from. Anyhow, Gordie is
>now living with us, and the spirit of a puppy has livened our lives up
>beautifully. Gordie and Beau now go to the local dog park every day and
>play with as many as 20 other dogs. This hopefully has the effect of
>wearing Gordie out enough so that his energy level is not quite as
>dramatic. Beau seems to enjoy it too - he acts as a sort of elder
>statesman should any disputes arise. Anyhow, Gordie and Beau are getting
>along fine, the cats, except for my bold and dog savvy Puddie, are less
>sure of their delight at the new addition.
>
>
>Gordie is also now enrolled in puppy kindergarten classes to make him a
>better canine citizen.
>
>By the way, Diane and I and our animal family live in King of Prussia,
>PA, just outside of Philadelphia.
>
>Yours,
>
>
>Judy
>
>
>
>

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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:19:20 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: FWD from rec.pets.dogs.health re: Lysodren
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980302161920.00726380@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I saw this message posted to rec.pets.dogs.health and knew that the
Cushing's Pets group could answer the question better than anyone! Please
respond to both <contentment@worldnet.att.net> and to the Cushing's group.

-Leslie

>Parnell & Sandi O'Brien <contentment@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> I have a schipperke recently diagnosed as having Cushing's disease.
>> The vet has her on lysodren, which is also used for human illnesses.
>> We just started her on it yesterday, 1/2 of a 500 mg tablet twice
>> daily after meals. Does anyone have experience with this drug?
>>
>> I am concerned because we used this drug on a basset hound just a
>> month ago (also for Cushing's) and he had to be euthanized within a
>> few days of starting on it. I don't know if his rapid deterioration
>> was due to the drug or if he was just too sick to recover.
>

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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:38:13 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: FWD from rec.pets.dogs.health re: Lysodren
Message-ID: <9803021738.ZM21350@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'd already responded to here, and invited her to join us.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:54:03 CST
From: "Kathleen J. Spradlin-Miller" <kmiller@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Good News
Message-ID: <1AEBD2960F6@beowulf.mhsl.uab.edu>

Hi Everyone!

CoCo and I got some good news this morning. He does not have
Cushings. It's really a great relief for me, since it seemed to me
that he had a lot of the symptoms. But I still worry about all of
your little ones out there with the disease. I'll keep monitoring
the list, thought, and all of you will stay in my prayers.

Jean and CoCo

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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:15:19 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Good News
Message-ID: <9803031115.ZM28582@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm happy to hear about CoCo. I hope that whatever has been ailing him is
licked real quick.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

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Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:45:55 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Good News
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980303204555.006e09a4@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We are so pleased with CoCo's results, I bet it was a great relief for you,
love to CoCo, Jackie, Randy, Sunny and Saphir.

At 10:54 AM 3/3/98 CST, you wrote:
>Hi Everyone!
>
>CoCo and I got some good news this morning. He does not have
>Cushings. It's really a great relief for me, since it seemed to me
>that he had a lot of the symptoms. But I still worry about all of
>your little ones out there with the disease. I'll keep monitoring
>the list, thought, and all of you will stay in my prayers.
>
>Jean and CoCo
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

Jacqueline P. Siniard
Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Materials Science Building Room C206
Huntsville, Alabama 35899
ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu

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Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:49:41 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: FWD from rec.pets.dogs.health re: Lysodren
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980303204941.006f0658@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello Parnell & Sandi, our baby Sunny is on Lysodren, she has been on a
loading dose now for three weeks, with 500 mg a day, 1/2 twice a day, we
have not achieved the maintenance dosage yet, but she seems to be okay on
it, she drops low sometimes but then we give her a prednisone, she has been
taking Lysodren on and off for over a year now. Jackie, Randy, Sunny and Saphir

At 04:19 PM 3/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I saw this message posted to rec.pets.dogs.health and knew that the
>Cushing's Pets group could answer the question better than anyone! Please
>respond to both <contentment@worldnet.att.net> and to the Cushing's group.
>
>-Leslie
>
>>Parnell & Sandi O'Brien <contentment@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a schipperke recently diagnosed as having Cushing's disease.
>>> The vet has her on lysodren, which is also used for human illnesses.
>>> We just started her on it yesterday, 1/2 of a 500 mg tablet twice
>>> daily after meals. Does anyone have experience with this drug?
>>>
>>> I am concerned because we used this drug on a basset hound just a
>>> month ago (also for Cushing's) and he had to be euthanized within a
>>> few days of starting on it. I don't know if his rapid deterioration
>>> was due to the drug or if he was just too sick to recover.
>>
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

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Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:59:27 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Poor Sunny
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980303205927.00707774@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello everyone, here is the latest on Sunny, we took her on Saturday for her
3rd ACTH testing after loading her for yet another week, her neck is bruised
so badly where they are trying to get the blood from her jugular, but in the
end have to take it from the paw as her veins keep collapsing, anyway, we
got the blood, packed it in dry ice, shipped it fedex for Monday delivery to
Auburn, checked and it arrived safetly, well, her previous ACTH was pre-99,
Post 182, yesterday her results were Pre-138, Post 968, we were so upset, we
were beside ourselves, how could this be, we called the vet at Auburn, she
said it was from the Prednisone that we gave her on Thursday noon, but I
argued with her that she said it was okay to give her as long as it was 24
hours before testing, and when she was tested on Saturday, it was 45 hours,
so she said that we had to test Sunny again today (Tuesday) give her another
loading dose last night and get the blood today and fedex to Auburn again
for Wednesday checking, this little doggy cannot take much more, she was
actually crying today when we took her, Randy and I said no more, if the
results come back high this time then we cannot let her go thru this again,
it really hurts us so much to see her suffer like this, has anyone got any
suggestions, our baby is just not happy. Jackie, Randy, Sunny and Saphir.,
Oh by the way, Saphir her cat friend came over to her as soon as we got her
home today and kissed her over her head, that was wonderful to see. (Sorry I
rambled on so much)

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:32:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Poor Sunny (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980303183148.26268B-100000@curly.cc.utexas.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

---------- Forwarded message ----------
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
From: kathleen richards <kilty@tstonramp.com>
Subject: Re: Poor Sunny

I'm under the gun with a work deadline, but I had to say something here.
Sorry if it's a bit abrupt. When Ebony's blood was being tested the same
thing happened to us. Our main vet was away and his replacement assurred (sp?)
me that everything was fine as long as no pred. had been given for 24 hours
before. We had similar probs. with blood results - to make a long story short,
regular vet came back apologized for replacement vet, said test had been a waste
because it takes AT LEAST A WEEK, IF NOT TWO for pred. to clear from the
bloodstream
enough not to affect the test. I am sorry to hear you are having the same
problem.
I was really angry at having wasted over $100 in addition to Ebony's discomfort.

*hug*

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Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 21:24:08 -0600
From: Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Vincent update/vaccination question
Message-ID: <34FCC958.4EB3@sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi everyone -

An update on my Springer Vincent. His loading week went well, no side
effects at all. He's now on a maintenance dose of Lysodren, 1/2 of a
500mg tablet twice a week. So far, so good....

I wanted to ask y'all what you think about annual vaccinations. A book
I'm reading "Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs &
Cats" suggests that vaccinations given to dogs with weakened immune
systems (our dogs) can be dangerous, especially when all of the
vaccinations are given at the same time. It goes on to say "Giving a
vaccine to an animal with cancer is like pouring gasoline on a fire."

Vincent is due for his shots this month, and now I'm not sure what I
should do. Is Cushing's cancer? Anyone have any thoughts/experiences
with this question?

Thanks,

Sandy and Vincent

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:02:19 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vincent update/vaccination question
Message-ID: <9803040902.ZM17703@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

This discussion is going on right now in rpd.health. Several vet schools
(including Colorado and TAMU) are now recommending a reduced frequency. In
particular, the Colorado Protocol (as it's known) calls for regular
vaccinations the first three years, then draw titers after that. The
alternative is a staggered two year schedule.

I believe we lost Molly to autoimmune hemolytic anemia due to vaccination, as
she developed this within a week of the shots, which is the expected time
frame.

Of course, rabies is a different story, at least here in Tejas.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

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Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:59:58 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vincent update/vaccination question
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980304155958.0071e978@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello Sandy, when I took Sunny for her annual injections several weeks ago
they informed me that we should only give her the rabies, we still have not
given her the parvo or boosters for hardpad and distemper, we will most
likely do that down the road since she has been loaded for weeks now with
Lysodren, we want her to feel a bit better and get onto a maintenance dose
before we put more chemicals into her body, we may not even do that, she
only goes out into our back garden and is never out of our sight, and we
have a fenced in back garden, I hate for her to have more chemicals in her
little body, but she had no side effects from the rabies injection, hugs
from Sunny

At 09:24 PM 3/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi everyone -
>
>An update on my Springer Vincent. His loading week went well, no side
>effects at all. He's now on a maintenance dose of Lysodren, 1/2 of a
>500mg tablet twice a week. So far, so good....
>
>I wanted to ask y'all what you think about annual vaccinations. A book
>I'm reading "Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs &
>Cats" suggests that vaccinations given to dogs with weakened immune
>systems (our dogs) can be dangerous, especially when all of the
>vaccinations are given at the same time. It goes on to say "Giving a
>vaccine to an animal with cancer is like pouring gasoline on a fire."
>
>Vincent is due for his shots this month, and now I'm not sure what I
>should do. Is Cushing's cancer? Anyone have any thoughts/experiences
>with this question?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Sandy and Vincent
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:46:38 -0600 (CST)
From: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Introduction
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980304123233.29339A-100000@bradley.bradley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

She has been put on an experimental drug named Anipryl/L-Deprenyl and I am
unsure whether to continue this drug or have her put on Lysodren, which
seems to be the "drug of choice" for this disease. She has had only three
tablets so far, but she is noticeably, disturbingly more lethargic
already. Can you advise me on this?

I first noticed the muscular weakness in her back legs at the end of last
summer, almost immediately after I applied a second dose of Frontline (for
fleas) between her shoulder blades. I wonder if there is a link i.e.
chemical toxicity leading to liver dysfunction. Have you heard of any
similar links to home exterminations, say, or Dursban reaction? My vet
insisted it was simply arthritis and ignored my protestations that
arthritis would not come on so suddenly, so vehemently.

I am also interested in learning the regimens you follow for your dogs. I
guess I'm asking if I should be doing other things besides giving her the
medicine regularly. If so, what, when? I have had little or no guidance
from the veterinarians involved. As a matter of fact, it took me from the
end of summer to now to finally reach this diagnosis, and even then the
vets at U of I were sure it was liver shunt until I took her back a
second time and suggested Cushings to them.

Please help me give this girl the best treatment she can have for her
remaining days! Thank you,

Jenny Kellstedt
jk@bradley.bradley.edu

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Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 14:39:51 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <34FDAE00.819EFE5D@cynet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<HTML>
Dear Jennie,
 There has been much discussion of the Anipryil vs. Lysodren vs. homeopathic
treatments on this list, and there may not be any one answer.  From
my perspective, however, it does seem that the dogs on Lysodren seem to
be showing more improvement than those on Anipry, which I believe has a
much higher rate of no significant response in treated dogs.  My own
dog Bo has been on Lysodren for about a year now. His severe physical symptoms
of Cushings (I felt for sure he could not live much longer) disappeared
shortly after we did a second loading phase with Lysodren and have not
returned since. The loading phase can be tricky, since the cortisol output 
of some dogs, Bo included,  can get too depressed, and then you have
to back off and treat the dog with prednisone, which only prolongs the
Cushings symptoms. But once you get past that it is well worth it. Bo's
quality of life is so much better now. I do have some concerns about his
personality changes (less demonstrative and playful than pre-Cushings),
that I hope to address with a checkup soon.

Also, I'm tempted to ask if you have any alternatives to your current
veterinarians. It would be most helpful if you could find one that would
be responsive to your concerns and that you could have confidence in. Otherwise,
you are going to continue to second-guess (rightfullly) every decision
they make.
 Good Luck!
 Judy Hartheimer
  
  
  
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>My wonderful dog Sweetie, a Tibetan Terrier, to be 8 yrs. old on Easter,
was diagnosed with Cushings (pituitary) on Monday at the University of
Illinois Veterinary Clinic. I am very sad right now, but there are some
questions I have which maybe you can answer.

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:48:41 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: jhart@cynet.net, cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <9803041348.ZM362@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'll second everything Judy said, and add a suggestion to seek out a vet who
specializes in endocrinology. Not neccesarily as your primary vet (although
ours was), but at least someone your vet can consult with.

Anipryl isn't really an "experimental" drug. Sadly, initial reports had it as
a "miracle drug" for Cushings. Practice has shown different results. Ivan was
on Lysodren for 3 1/2 years, and, we think, benefited greatly from it.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:58:59 EST
From: Spot210 <Spot210@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <5810b2b5.34fdcea6@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi, Jenny. I have just started my dog on Anipryl (15mg) and we will be
testing her soon to see how it's working. My vet wanted to try Anipryl
because Lysodren is supposed to destroy adrenal tissue, which would make the
dog go from having hypercorticism to hypocorticism, and that would necessitate
hormone replacement therapy eventually. so, we're just trying this for now.
My vet is in Hillside (Hillchester Hospital for Animals), and the doctor's
name is Hendrickson. They've been there forever, and, from what I hear,
people come from far and wide to have them treat their pets. Since you must
live in the Chicago area, you may want to contact them. Their number is
708-449-6300. I feel that I'm in good hands with them. I realize many people
on this Cushing's list seem to sway toward Lysodren and we are very new to
this whole thing, but I will try the Anipryl for a while and see if it works
for Mugsy. Best of luck to you and your pet. Susan

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Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 19:49:27 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Poor Sunny
Message-ID: <34FDE887.B59EA577@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jackie.....

The heartache and frustration that you all are going thru right now HAS
to be taking its toll! I completely fell apart when I read your post.
I've been trying to keep up with Sunny's progress. My heart sank...

I have a couple of phone numbers I can call and will do so tomorrow and
see if I can come up with some answers for you. One is at Cornell
University Animal Hospital where my dog was diagnosed for Cushing's. I
feel like that is the least I can do for you..if only to find out how
long Prednisone stays in the body. I wish I could do more for Sunny as
she has suffered enough!!!

Please give Sunny a "gentle" BIG hug from Schonus and I as I'm sure
she's pretty sore! Our thoughts and prayers are with all of you to keep
finding the strength!!

Linda & Schonus

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Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 19:57:12 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Introduction
Message-ID: <34FDEA57.F8339D7E@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jenny.....

When Schonus was diagnosed with Cushing's he was started on Anipryl as
my Vet thought it to be the "safer" drug for him because of other
complications that he has. I was ready to fight *tooth and nail* to NOT
give him Lysodren because I was afraid of what it would do to him.

When Schonus first started the Anipryl and we went for our walk...he
walked like a "drunk". Staggered all over. Then that stopped but after
two months my Vet said it was time for Lysodren as Schonus' clinical
symptoms did not change. I kept insisting to keep Schonus on Anipryl
with hopes that he would improve. He was on Anipryl for six months and
then finally my Vet insisted that we start the Lysodren. I nearly fell
apart..but after the help I received from all the great people here on
learning about Lysodren...we began.

I only wish I had found this site four months earlier as Schonus is now
on Lysodren and there is a world of difference in him. Just the other
day I asked my Vet for a prescription for something that I could take to
keep up with Schonus!!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Linda & Schonus

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:13:52 EST
From: RitaSwim <RitaSwim@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <2aab7131.34fe0a63@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

You are in good company, Jenny & Sweetie. You'll probably get more info.
(most of it first hand) than your vet even wants you to question him on, but
that's the purpose of a good list - to give you info. to take to the
professional and question him/her about. Then... YOU get to make the
decision.

My Chloe (near 14) was diagnosed w/Cushing's 3 weeks ago. She is doing quite
well on Lysodren and will to back for a 1-month test in a couple of weeks to
see if her levels are all where they should be. When Lysodren was prescribed
for her, it was explained to me that it is "the drug of choice" because it is
cheaper and easier to find. Therefore, it is a logical drug to start off
with. If your drug DOESN'T work for Sweetie, you might push the Lysodren with
your vet. I am prepared, also, to make any adjustments needed if Chloe's test
don't show that the Lysodren is bringing things in line. At this early stage
we're still hoping that the symptoms can be controlled in the best way all
around with minimal side effects on our babies being priority #1. By the way,
Chloe was more alert after starting the Lysodren, so maybe she was feeling
pretty lousy before she started her dosing. Anyway, we are pleased so far.

Please keep us posted on Sweetie's progress. Keep the questions coming -
those of us who are going through or have been through this will be here to
support you!

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:54:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Cc: jhart@cynet.net
Subject: Anipryl results after 3 days?
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980304204548.8365A-100000@bradley.bradley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Thanks to everyone who has answered my e-mail. I can see that you are a
very caring group of people, and I hope you will help me become as strong
as you in dealing with this scourge.

Sweetie, after three days on Anipryl, has become increasingly listless,
sleeping through the entire day. She is having trouble maintaining her
balance when she stands up. Final observation is that she has developed a
dull, blank stare which is pretty frightening, not to be funny but it
reminds me of Joan Crawford in that old movie "Hush, Hush, Sweet
Charlotte."

Do you think I should wait longer or ask my vet to take her off the
Anipryl immediately? Are these "normal" reactions to the medication?

One last question. What do you feed your dogs?

Thanks again,

Jenny
jk@bradley.bradley.edu

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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 07:08:24 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Sunny
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980305130824.006e97f4@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Goodmorning everyone, here we are again with not good news, we heard from
Auburn last evening, Sunny is very badly suppressed, and this time we asked
her to explain what suppressed means, it means for those out there that did
not know either, her adrenal gland is not functioning like it should, that
is why her results keep coming back high, this wednesdays results were
Pre-117, Post 215, so I am so very sorry to have to tell you all again, but
we have to load her for another week, Randy and I are beside ourselves, we
started this morning, she is to have another ACTH testing done next Tuesday
and of course the sample Fedex to Auburn for Wednesday testing, her poor
little neck is so bruised where they keep trying to get the blood, this will
be her 4th week of loading, after reading one of the e-mail's this morning,
I am beginning to wonder if the Lysodren has not done this to her Adrenal
Gland, I am going to check with Auburn today to see if that is possible as
she has had so much, she has 500 mg a day. Sorry to burden all of you again,
Love and hugs to the babies, Sunny, Saphir, Randy and Jackie.

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 07:36:35 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Poor Sunny
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980305133635.006fbc2c@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sunny, Saphir, Randy and I thank you so much Linda, we are so glad that you
are all out there.

At 07:49 PM 3/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Jackie.....
>
>The heartache and frustration that you all are going thru right now HAS
>to be taking its toll! I completely fell apart when I read your post.
>I've been trying to keep up with Sunny's progress. My heart sank...
>
>I have a couple of phone numbers I can call and will do so tomorrow and
>see if I can come up with some answers for you. One is at Cornell
>University Animal Hospital where my dog was diagnosed for Cushing's. I
>feel like that is the least I can do for you..if only to find out how
>long Prednisone stays in the body. I wish I could do more for Sunny as
>she has suffered enough!!!
>
>Please give Sunny a "gentle" BIG hug from Schonus and I as I'm sure
>she's pretty sore! Our thoughts and prayers are with all of you to keep
>finding the strength!!
>
>Linda & Schonus
>
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 10:07:22 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Sunny
Message-ID: <34FEB19A.8F1FA817@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jackie....

When Sunny "slips" how much Prednisone is she given? Schonus was given
50 mgs and responded with 12 hours.

Linda

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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:50:03 -0500
From: DAOsborn@softart.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu,
Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <0000B17B.1408@softart.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

Hi Jenny. Welcome to the list. Where in Illinois do you live? The
Purdue Vet school in central Indiana has an endocrinolgist on staff
that I know my vets in Indianapolis have conferred with. I have a
Scottish terrier, Kelso, that was diagnosed last July. He is
currently doing really well on the lysodren.

If this is close to you, you may request a referral from your vet.
Let me know if you would like more specifics.

Doreen

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Introduction
Author: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu> at Internet
Date: 3/4/98 12:46 PM

My wonderful dog Sweetie, a Tibetan Terrier, to be 8 yrs. old on Easter,
was diagnosed with Cushings (pituitary) on Monday at the University of
Illinois Veterinary Clinic. I am very sad right now, but there are some
questions I have which maybe you can answer.

She has been put on an experimental drug named Anipryl/L-Deprenyl and I am
unsure whether to continue this drug or have her put on Lysodren, which
seems to be the "drug of choice" for this disease. She has had only three
tablets so far, but she is noticeably, disturbingly more lethargic
already. Can you advise me on this?

I first noticed the muscular weakness in her back legs at the end of last
summer, almost immediately after I applied a second dose of Frontline (for
fleas) between her shoulder blades. I wonder if there is a link i.e.
chemical toxicity leading to liver dysfunction. Have you heard of any
similar links to home exterminations, say, or Dursban reaction? My vet
insisted it was simply arthritis and ignored my protestations that
arthritis would not come on so suddenly, so vehemently.

I am also interested in learning the regimens you follow for your dogs. I
guess I'm asking if I should be doing other things besides giving her the
medicine regularly. If so, what, when? I have had little or no guidance
from the veterinarians involved. As a matter of fact, it took me from the
end of summer to now to finally reach this diagnosis, and even then the
vets at U of I were sure it was liver shunt until I took her back a
second time and suggested Cushings to them.

Please help me give this girl the best treatment she can have for her
remaining days! Thank you,

Jenny Kellstedt
jk@bradley.bradley.edu

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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:56:15 EST
From: Spot210 <Spot210@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Sunny
Message-ID: <2d637d6c.34ff1171@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Dear Jacqueline:

Good luck with Sunny. I hope all goes well.

susan

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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:44:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Sunny
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980305142206.1586A-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I was wondering, doesn't adrenal gland damage (from Lysodren or whatever)
result in a disease called "Addison's Disease"? That was what our vet was
a bit worried about with Ebony at one point, when we talked about giving
Ebony Lysodren if/when the Anipryl didn't work. Lysodren works by killing
the surface cells of the glands (gross simplification, I know), so there
is a possibility of overdosing and damaging too much of the gland.
However, the results of that are, I think, different from the symptoms of
Cushings. I am not a doctor, 'just sharing what I remember.

--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 18:57:49 -0600
From: scott <scott@adams.net>
To: "cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: heart worm meds
Message-ID: <34FF4A0C.E9E24B6B@adams.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Any one have any reliable info on the safety of heart guard for Lysodryn
loaded dogs? Knowing that Lysodryn has a negative effect on both liver
function & immune system status coupled with my assumption [am I wrong]
that heart worm pills are a low grade toxin I can not help but wonder
about the wisdom of it....

Scott & of course Jake...

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 20:11:10 EST
From: hilbro@juno.com (H. Brown)
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Cc: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Sunny
Message-ID: <19980305.200719.9983.4.hilbro@juno.com>

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:44:32 -0800 (PST) Kathleen Richards
<krichard@acme.csusb.edu> writes:
>I was wondering, doesn't adrenal gland damage (from Lysodren or
>whatever)
>result in a disease called "Addison's Disease"?

Simplistically, Addison's (where there is insufficient production of
adrenocorticosteroid) is the converse of Cushing's. Technically, there
is a distinction to be made between true Addison's or true Cushing's
DISEASE and Addisonian or Cushing's SYNDROME.

Hilary

That was what our vet
>was
>a bit worried about with Ebony at one point, when we talked about
>giving
>Ebony Lysodren if/when the Anipryl didn't work. Lysodren works by
>killing
>the surface cells of the glands (gross simplification, I know), so
>there
>is a possibility of overdosing and damaging too much of the gland.
>However, the results of that are, I think, different from the symptoms
>of
>Cushings. I am not a doctor, 'just sharing what I remember.
>
>--
>kathleen richards
>krichard@acme.csusb.edu
> ~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron
>fences.
> There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:43:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Sunny
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980305204246.20473A-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Thank you very much for a better explanation than I was able to give! I
am frequently afraid to stick my neck out because I sometimes remember
only parts of things! I appreciate your help! *grin*

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, H. Brown wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:44:32 -0800 (PST) Kathleen Richards
> <krichard@acme.csusb.edu> writes:
> >I was wondering, doesn't adrenal gland damage (from Lysodren or
> >whatever)
> >result in a disease called "Addison's Disease"?
>
> Simplistically, Addison's (where there is insufficient production of
> adrenocorticosteroid) is the converse of Cushing's. Technically, there
> is a distinction to be made between true Addison's or true Cushing's
> DISEASE and Addisonian or Cushing's SYNDROME.
>
> Hilary
>
> That was what our vet
> >was
> >a bit worried about with Ebony at one point, when we talked about
> >giving
> >Ebony Lysodren if/when the Anipryl didn't work. Lysodren works by
> >killing
> >the surface cells of the glands (gross simplification, I know), so
> >there
> >is a possibility of overdosing and damaging too much of the gland.
> >However, the results of that are, I think, different from the symptoms
> >of
> >Cushings. I am not a doctor, 'just sharing what I remember.
> >
> >--
> >kathleen richards
> >krichard@acme.csusb.edu
> > ~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron
> >fences.
> > There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John
> >
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>

--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 00:34:24 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: heart worm meds
Message-ID: <34FF8ADF.A2C05F2D@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F60C900358AC16E612F493EB"

--------------F60C900358AC16E612F493EB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

hi guys: its me lurking, but I felt that I had to answer this one:

It is my feeling that perhaps you should forego using any heart worm
medication.

There is much talk around, especially among breeders, that heart worm
medicine can be detrimetal to the dogs overall health--if you feel
absolutley a need for heart worm medication then go with the daily pill, not
the monthly. I have taken my little Ipswich off of any medication--just
having her checked to worms when necessary.

scott wrote:

> Any one have any reliable info on the safety of heart guard for Lysodryn
> loaded dogs? Knowing that Lysodryn has a negative effect on both liver
> function & immune system status coupled with my assumption [am I wrong]
> that heart worm pills are a low grade toxin I can not help but wonder
> about the wisdom of it....
>
> Scott & of course Jake...

--------------F60C900358AC16E612F493EB
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
hi guys:  its me lurking, but I felt that I had to answer this one:

It is my feeling that perhaps you should forego using any heart
worm medication.

There is much talk around, especially among breeders, that heart worm
medicine can be detrimetal to the dogs overall health--if you feel absolutley
a need for heart worm medication then go with the daily pill, not the monthly. 
I have taken my little Ipswich off of any medication--just having her checked
to worms when necessary.

scott wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Any one have any reliable info on the safety of heart
guard for Lysodryn
 loaded dogs? Knowing that Lysodryn has a negative effect on both liver
 function & immune system status coupled with my assumption [am
I wrong]
 that heart worm pills are a low grade toxin I can not help but wonder
 about the wisdom of it....

Scott & of course Jake...</BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

--------------F60C900358AC16E612F493EB--

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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 06:28:02 -0800
From: Jeri <kurvenal@ameritech.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: heart worm meds
Message-ID: <350007F2.447C@ameritech.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

HD Bliley wrote:
> It is my feeling that perhaps you should forego using any heart worm
> medication.

This is a continuing topic on my dog's epilepsy list. Kurvenal did have
trouble with the monthly heartworm pills, but does fine on the daily
pills. If you live in an area where heartworm is a concern, then
the risks of not using the medication might be greater than the risk
of using the medication. That's something that everyone will need to
judge for themselves, but I personally would never forgive myself if
Kurvenal got heartworm, and it could have been so easily prevented.
The treatment, if he got heartworm, would surely kill him.
But, dogs live long, healthy lives on heartworm medications, in
general. I'd suggest the daily medications as a good alternative
to the monthly, though. Jeri

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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 07:33:11 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Sunny
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980306133311.006e9ef4@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Linda, sorry it took me so long to reply, yesterday was not a good day,
sunny is given only 2.5 mg of prednisone and she responds very quickly, but
then drinks constantly, we are at the moment watching her water intake very
carefully, she slips down to 13 oz quite a bit a day, Auburn said that she
should consume at least 18-20 oz a day, but not our Sunny, she can go
anywhere from 13 - 25. Jackie and Sunny

At 10:07 AM 3/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Jackie....
>
>When Sunny "slips" how much Prednisone is she given? Schonus was given
>50 mgs and responded with 12 hours.
>
>Linda
>
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:33:20 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Sunny
Message-ID: <9803060933.ZM12720@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Yes, Addison's is a concern. In fact, a "good" ACTH stim test should look like
a normal blood test of a dog with Addison's (I think that's the way it works).

Anyways, Addison's is always the reason for having 3 or 4 Prednisone around.
Just in case things go catawhumpus.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:49:45 -0500
From: KAMCK@centuryinter.net
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: feeling helpless
Message-ID: <3500A7B9.78C8@centuryinter.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is the first time I have written. My dog, Cookie is very special to
me and I wish I could do more to help her. I've read all the information
I could find since she was diagnosed with Cushings a month ago. Her hair
has gradually become thinner and her skin is dry and flakes off like a
persons skin does after a sunburn (not like dandruff).What I would
really like to know is if anyone else has noticed any shaking or
trembling, like the chills? Cookie does this a lot. It can be a small
tremble in her back legs or a complete shaking over her entire body.
This happens at any time - sleeping, walking, sitting.. I wish I knew if
she is in pain. Also her breathing is sometimes noisey. It will sound
like a purring noise, or a low moaning. She has been treated with
Lysodren. I would like to know if anyone has experienced these
symptoms.I want to do all I can to help her. Thanks. - Kelli

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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 23:52:12 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: KAMCK@centuryinter.net
Cc: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: feeling helpless
Message-ID: <3500D279.AE2EE39A@cynet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

By the way Kelly, you didn't say if they put you through a "loading"
period with Lysodren, where the dog takes it every day for a week or
more to build it up in his/her system. This is essential to successful
treatment with this drug.
Judy

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 03:44:03 -0500 (EST)
From: MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
Cc: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: feeling helpless
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980307033442.408778A-100000@trentu.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 KAMCK@centuryinter.net wrote:

> I could find since she was diagnosed with Cushings a month ago. Her hair
> has gradually become thinner and her skin is dry and flakes off like a
> persons skin does after a sunburn (not like dandruff).What I would
> really like to know is if anyone else has noticed any shaking or
> trembling, like the chills? Cookie does this a lot. It can be a small
> tremble in her back legs or a complete shaking over her entire body.
> This happens at any time - sleeping, walking, sitting.. I wish I knew if
Yes, trembling happens with my dog Maggie, too. I haven't been able to
figure out if it's from cold, nerves, or pain---though I suspect a
combination of all three (however, Mag's not by nature a nervous dog).
The vet's assistant seemed to think it was from the cold. But she has all
her fur (knock wood) and it's puzzling. She does seem to relax when I put
a blanket on her so maybe that's it.

> she is in pain. Also her breathing is sometimes noisey. It
will
sound > like a purring noise, or a low moaning. She has been treated with
> Lysodren. I would like to know if anyone has experienced these
> symptoms.I want to do all I can to help her. Thanks. - Kelli
>
Maggie breathes very loudly, too. She snores terribly, pants a lot, and
generally sounds quite loud. It's funny you should mention "purring",
because she was making sounds just like that a few days ago (the first
we'd heard of it), which was strange.

I wish I could tell you if Cookie's in pain. I also wish I knew if Maggie
is. It's something I've been wondering a lot about lately. I don't have
the money to treat her, so I'm just sitting back, watching, hoping she
stays well, and worrying.

She's a grumpy, feisty little mutt :) She tears up stuff every time I go
out and don't take her with me....and it was her birthday the other day.
9 years old.

Lia

==============================================================================
"The slogan `Vote for me and I'll lend you my pants', can often be
misconstrued" ---Jerry Boyle, This Hour Has 22 Minutes
Lia M Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess of the Procrastinators
lmbrown@trentu.ca anlmb@blaze.trentu.ca
==============================================================================
Palpatine's dead. Vote Wedge. Antilles/Celchu '00!

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 10:47:53 EST
From: Spot210 <Spot210@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: feeling helpless
Message-ID: <a60cd795.35016c2b@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-03-07 03:52:12 EST, you write:

<< I wish I could tell you if Cookie's in pain. I also wish I knew if Maggie
is. It's something I've been wondering a lot about lately. I don't have
the money to treat her, so I'm just sitting back, watching, hoping she
stays well, and worrying.

She's a grumpy, feisty little mutt :) She tears up stuff every time I go
out and don't take her with me....and it was her birthday the other day.
9 years old.

Lia >>
===
Lia, my heart goes out to you and Cookie. It's a terrible shame that the
medication to treat this illness is so prohibitively expensive. I can
sympathize with you. Susan

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 11:02:33 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: feeling helpless
Message-ID: <35016F99.705BEFBD@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9E5AAF8E45857E48EBCB494E"

--------------9E5AAF8E45857E48EBCB494E
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Generally, a dog will exhibit 'shivering' when it is either in pain or is
frightened (perhaps you have noticed that most dogs who fear thunder and
lightening will shiver during a severe storm.)

With Cushings shivering could also be a reaction to aberrant brain chemistry since
the disease will manifest itself in behaviors problems.

Shivering is also prevalent in dogs who suffer from tick paralysis, probably a
fear reaction to their being unable to function normally.

The 'purring' can probably be attributed to lung problems--i.e.,
'mineralization'--due to the Cushings. This seems to be the opinion of many
owners in this group.

Henry Bliley, Reston, VA
MAD PRAETOR wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 KAMCK@centuryinter.net wrote:
>
> > I could find since she was diagnosed with Cushings a month ago. Her hair
> > has gradually become thinner and her skin is dry and flakes off like a
> > persons skin does after a sunburn (not like dandruff).What I would
> > really like to know is if anyone else has noticed any shaking or
> > trembling, like the chills? Cookie does this a lot. It can be a small
> > tremble in her back legs or a complete shaking over her entire body.
> > This happens at any time - sleeping, walking, sitting.. I wish I knew if
> Yes, trembling happens with my dog Maggie, too. I haven't been able to
> figure out if it's from cold, nerves, or pain---though I suspect a
> combination of all three (however, Mag's not by nature a nervous dog).
> The vet's assistant seemed to think it was from the cold. But she has all
> her fur (knock wood) and it's puzzling. She does seem to relax when I put
> a blanket on her so maybe that's it.
>
> > she is in pain. Also her breathing is sometimes noisey. It
> will
> sound > like a purring noise, or a low moaning. She has been treated with
> > Lysodren. I would like to know if anyone has experienced these
> > symptoms.I want to do all I can to help her. Thanks. - Kelli
> >
> Maggie breathes very loudly, too. She snores terribly, pants a lot, and
> generally sounds quite loud. It's funny you should mention "purring",
> because she was making sounds just like that a few days ago (the first
> we'd heard of it), which was strange.
>
> I wish I could tell you if Cookie's in pain. I also wish I knew if Maggie
> is. It's something I've been wondering a lot about lately. I don't have
> the money to treat her, so I'm just sitting back, watching, hoping she
> stays well, and worrying.
>
> She's a grumpy, feisty little mutt :) She tears up stuff every time I go
> out and don't take her with me....and it was her birthday the other day.
> 9 years old.
>
> Lia
>
> ==============================================================================
> "The slogan `Vote for me and I'll lend you my pants', can often be
> misconstrued" ---Jerry Boyle, This Hour Has 22 Minutes
> Lia M Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess of the Procrastinators
> lmbrown@trentu.ca anlmb@blaze.trentu.ca
> ==============================================================================
> Palpatine's dead. Vote Wedge. Antilles/Celchu '00!

--------------9E5AAF8E45857E48EBCB494E
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Generally, a dog will exhibit  'shivering' when it is either in
pain or is frightened (perhaps you have noticed that most dogs
who fear thunder and lightening will shiver during a severe storm.)

With Cushings shivering could also be a reaction to aberrant brain chemistry
since the disease will manifest itself in behaviors problems.

Shivering is also prevalent in dogs who suffer from tick paralysis,
probably a fear reaction to their being unable to function normally.

The 'purring' can probably be attributed to lung problems--i.e., 'mineralization'--due
to the Cushings.  This seems to be the opinion of many owners in this
group.

Henry Bliley,  Reston, VA
 MAD PRAETOR wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 KAMCK@centuryinter.net wrote:

> I could find since she was diagnosed with Cushings a month ago. Her
hair
 > has gradually become thinner and her skin is dry and flakes off like
a
 > persons skin does after a sunburn (not like dandruff).What I would
 > really like to know is if anyone else has noticed any shaking or
 > trembling, like the chills? Cookie does this a lot. It can be a small
 > tremble in her back legs or a complete shaking over her entire body.
 > This happens at any time - sleeping, walking, sitting.. I wish I
knew if
  Yes, trembling happens with my dog Maggie, too.  I haven't
been able to
 figure out if it's from cold, nerves, or pain---though I suspect a
 combination of all three (however, Mag's not by nature a nervous dog).
 The vet's assistant seemed to think it was from the cold.  But
she has all
 her fur (knock wood) and it's puzzling.  She does seem to relax
when I put
 a blanket on her so maybe that's it.

> she is in pain. Also her breathing is sometimes noisey. It
 will
 sound > like a purring noise, or a low moaning. She has been treated
with
 > Lysodren. I would like to know if anyone has experienced these
 > symptoms.I want to do all I can to help her. Thanks.  - Kelli
 >
  Maggie breathes very loudly, too.  She snores terribly,
pants a lot, and
 generally sounds quite loud.  It's funny you should mention "purring",
 because she was making sounds just like that a few days ago (the first
 we'd heard of it), which was strange.

I wish I could tell you if Cookie's in pain.  I also wish I knew
if Maggie
 is.  It's something I've been wondering a lot about lately. 
I don't have
 the money to treat her, so I'm just sitting back, watching, hoping
she
 stays well, and worrying.

She's a grumpy, feisty little mutt :)  She tears up stuff every
time I go
 out and don't take her with me....and it was her birthday the other
day.
 9 years old.

Lia

==============================================================================
    "The slogan `Vote for me and I'll lend you my pants',
can often be
          misconstrued"  
---Jerry Boyle,  This Hour Has 22 Minutes
      Lia M Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess
of the Procrastinators
                 
lmbrown@trentu.ca    anlmb@blaze.trentu.ca
 ==============================================================================
 Palpatine's dead.  Vote Wedge.  Antilles/Celchu '00!</BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

--------------9E5AAF8E45857E48EBCB494E--

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:18:34 EST
From: RitaSwim <RitaSwim@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Update on Chloe
Message-ID: <83b98511.35019d8c@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

My Chloe (near 14) was diagnosed w/Cushing's 3 weeks ago. She completed her
loading phase (250 mg. daily of Lysodren) and that one-week seemed to bring it
under control with no ill effects. She goes back for follow-up blood work on
March 20. She continues during this first month on 250 mg. of Lysodren once a
week, and, except for an upset tummy which was quickly remedied by adjusting
her feeding schedule from 1x/day to 2x's, we've been fairly lucky.

The only side effect is she is suffering from very itchy skin. I am wondering
if this is the result of the disease itself (I know that is one of the
symptoms), or if the Lysodren could also cause this. She has had dry skin
problems (a dachshund tendency) off and on during her entire life, but this
time it's much worse. She has always been a thin baby, so I'm thinking about
adding a little bit of fat to her diet or switching her to a non-senior dog
food which is probably too low in fat for her right now. I haven't mentioned
this to our vet yet, but will on 3/20. While I know that keeping an eye on
her weight is important, that has never really been a problem for her. What
do you think? Also, dachsies are prone to dry skin to start with and this is
now a further aggravation to "the itchies". Any thoughts? Also, I have not
had any discussion w/vet regarding what to expect long-term, so diet hasn't
come up. He has not suggested that we change her food in any way so far
(probably because she is NOT fat now.) I know it doesn't seem like a huge
deal symptom-wise, but if you've ever shared a bed with a dog with dry skin,
it ain't no picnic!! They do not sleep much and neither do you! I hope this
is my biggest problem with this nasty disease. I am so blessed to have had
her all these years in good health, except for parvo 2 years ago, that every
day is a gift. I want her to be 100% comfortable - I won't settle for 80%!

Thanks for any info.

Rita Swimmer
ritaswim@aol.com

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 16:55:40 -0600
From: scott <scott@adams.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Update on Chloe
Message-ID: <3501D06B.620B4F24@adams.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have heard several people comment on flakeing shortly after entering a lysodryn
routine. My jake looked like he came in from a snow storm! it lasted until he had
replaced most of his old coat with a new healthy one. You may also see an unusual
shed cycle too. i would be patieant for a couple of weeks.

RitaSwim wrote:

> My Chloe (near 14) was diagnosed w/Cushing's 3 weeks ago. She completed her
> loading phase (250 mg. daily of Lysodren) and that one-week seemed to bring it
> under control with no ill effects. She goes back for follow-up blood work on
> March 20. She continues during this first month on 250 mg. of Lysodren once a
> week, and, except for an upset tummy which was quickly remedied by adjusting
> her feeding schedule from 1x/day to 2x's, we've been fairly lucky.
>
> The only side effect is she is suffering from very itchy skin. I am wondering
> if this is the result of the disease itself (I know that is one of the
> symptoms), or if the Lysodren could also cause this. She has had dry skin
> problems (a dachshund tendency) off and on during her entire life, but this
> time it's much worse. She has always been a thin baby, so I'm thinking about
> adding a little bit of fat to her diet or switching her to a non-senior dog
> food which is probably too low in fat for her right now. I haven't mentioned
> this to our vet yet, but will on 3/20. While I know that keeping an eye on
> her weight is important, that has never really been a problem for her. What
> do you think? Also, dachsies are prone to dry skin to start with and this is
> now a further aggravation to "the itchies". Any thoughts? Also, I have not
> had any discussion w/vet regarding what to expect long-term, so diet hasn't
> come up. He has not suggested that we change her food in any way so far
> (probably because she is NOT fat now.) I know it doesn't seem like a huge
> deal symptom-wise, but if you've ever shared a bed with a dog with dry skin,
> it ain't no picnic!! They do not sleep much and neither do you! I hope this
> is my biggest problem with this nasty disease. I am so blessed to have had
> her all these years in good health, except for parvo 2 years ago, that every
> day is a gift. I want her to be 100% comfortable - I won't settle for 80%!
>
> Thanks for any info.
>
> Rita Swimmer
> ritaswim@aol.com

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 00:14:34 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Update on Chloe
Message-ID: <3502293A.A29F5D64@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4D25C64E063E189B4019C4BF"

--------------4D25C64E063E189B4019C4BF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I would recommend, as one solution to the dry skin problem, that you give her a
good flaxseed oil: one tablespoon daily per 25# of body weight.

Mix the flaxseed oil with 1/4 cup of cottage cheese (either 2%, low-fat, or
nonfat), and then mix that with 1/4 cup of plain nonfat yoghourt. (Cottage cheese
supplies the necessary sulfured protein that acts as a catalyst for the oil).
Flaxseed oil should always be kept cold; purchase it from a store that keeps its
stock in a 'fridge.

The flaxseed oil supplies Qmega3 and Omega 6 fatty acids, plus it will give a good
and safe calorie boost. And yes, you might want to alter Chloe's diet: eliminate
wheat products from you her diet, and I recommend Solid Gold kibble and sea
meal--search for SolidGold on the net, they have a wonderful website and will send
you a catalogue--its is fairly expensive, but, in my opinion, it is the best.
That and fresh veggies is all that I feed my dog, plus the flaxseed oil and
cottage cheese.

good luck--Henry Bliley, Reston, VA

RitaSwim wrote:

--------------4D25C64E063E189B4019C4BF
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
I would recommend, as one solution to the dry skin problem, that you give
her a good flaxseed oil: one tablespoon daily per 25# of body weight.

Mix the flaxseed oil with 1/4 cup of cottage cheese (either 2%,
low-fat, or nonfat), and then mix that with 1/4 cup of plain nonfat
yoghourt. (Cottage cheese supplies the necessary sulfured protein that
acts as a catalyst for the oil).  Flaxseed oil should always
be kept cold;  purchase it from a store that keeps its stock
in a 'fridge.

The flaxseed oil supplies Qmega3 and Omega 6 fatty acids, plus it will
give a good and safe calorie boost. And yes, you might want to alter Chloe's
diet: eliminate wheat products from you her diet, and I recommend Solid
Gold kibble and sea meal--search for SolidGold on the net, they have a
wonderful website and will send you a catalogue--its is fairly expensive,
but, in my opinion,  it is the best.  That and fresh veggies
is all that I feed my dog, plus the flaxseed oil and cottage cheese.

good luck--Henry Bliley, Reston, VA

RitaSwim wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>My Chloe (near 14) was diagnosed w/Cushing's 3 weeks
ago.  She completed her
 loading phase (250 mg. daily of Lysodren) and that one-week seemed
to bring it
 under control with no ill effects.  She goes back for follow-up
blood work on
 March 20.  She continues during this first month on 250 mg. of
Lysodren once a
 week, and, except for an upset tummy which was quickly remedied by
adjusting
 her feeding schedule from 1x/day to 2x's, we've been fairly lucky.

The only side effect is she is suffering from very itchy skin. 
I am wondering
 if this is the result of the disease itself (I know that is one of
the
 symptoms), or if the Lysodren could also cause this.  She has
had dry skin
 problems (a dachshund tendency) off and on during her entire life,
but this
 time it's much worse.  She has always been a thin baby, so I'm
thinking about
 adding a little bit of fat to her diet or switching her to a non-senior
dog
 food which is probably too low in fat for her right now.  I haven't
mentioned
 this to our vet yet, but will on 3/20.  While I know that keeping
an eye on
 her weight is important, that has never really been a problem for her. 
What
 do you think?  Also, dachsies  are prone to dry skin to start
with and this is
 now a further aggravation to "the itchies".  Any thoughts? 
Also, I have not
 had any discussion w/vet regarding what to expect long-term, so diet
hasn't
 come up.  He has not suggested that we change her food in any
way so far
 (probably because she is NOT fat now.)  I know it doesn't seem
like a huge
 deal symptom-wise, but if you've ever shared a bed with a dog with
dry skin,
 it ain't no picnic!!  They do not sleep much and neither do you! 
I hope this
 is my biggest problem with this nasty disease.  I am so blessed
to have had
 her all these years in good health, except for parvo 2 years ago, that
every
 day is a gift.  I want her to be 100% comfortable - I won't settle
for 80%!

Thanks for any info.

Rita Swimmer
 ritaswim@aol.com</BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

--------------4D25C64E063E189B4019C4BF--

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 10:15:03 -0800
From: Melissa Smith <nothingwitty@earthlink.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu, KAMCK@centuryinter.net
Subject: Re: feeling helpless
Message-ID: <3502E027.390F@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

KAMCK@centuryinter.net wrote:
>
> This is the first time I have written. My dog, Cookie is very special to
> me and I wish I could do more to help her. I've read all the information
> I could find since she was diagnosed with Cushings a month ago. Her hair
> has gradually become thinner and her skin is dry and flakes off like a
> persons skin does after a sunburn (not like dandruff).What I would
> really like to know is if anyone else has noticed any shaking or
> trembling, like the chills? Cookie does this a lot. It can be a small
> tremble in her back legs or a complete shaking over her entire body.
> This happens at any time - sleeping, walking, sitting.. I wish I knew if
> she is in pain. Also her breathing is sometimes noisey. It will sound
> like a purring noise, or a low moaning. She has been treated with
> Lysodren. I would like to know if anyone has experienced these
> symptoms.I want to do all I can to help her. Thanks. - Kelli

Our dog Amber is nine and was diagnosed with Cushings 3 weeks ago. She
started on Lysodren last sunday 500mg twice a day. By Monday night she
was shaking and we brought her into the vet. The shaking is a side
effect of the Lysodren. Her vet cut her down to 500mg once a day and her
shaking has subsided. She does shake but only after she comes in from
outside so we figure she is just cold since the vet shaved her tummy for
her ultrasound. I am with you I wish they could tell us if they were in
pain. Good Luck to all, Melissa,Keith,Kate,Lexie and Amber

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_24

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:32:47 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Feeling Helpless
Message-ID: <35031C8E.B4540778@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kelli....

Did you ask your Vet about these problems? My Schonus is 6 y.o and has
developed a *twitch* in his right hip area but only when he's laying
down. Vet seems to think it might be hip dysplagia. It's like he keeps
shifting but the only word I can describe it as is like a *twitch*.

Everytime he lays down Schonus *moans/groans*. Like you, I was
beginning to get worried as I also was thinking he was in pain. I also
mentioned this to my Vet but he didn't seem to concerned about it.

Yes, Schonus' hair became QUITE thin. It really broke my heart as he
has hair length of a golden retriever but because of the hair
loss/thinning, we had him clipped and the hair thinning spots are very
noticeable now. BUT, the good news is, his belly which has been bare for
the longest time is just now getting a "5 o'clock shadow". My Vet told
me to just be patient, it takes time for the hair to regrow.

Don't know if this helps............Linda & Schonus

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