Cushing's Disease/Syndrome | Electronic Forum Digest 26

CUSHINGS-PETS Digest 26

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) Re: We're new to this group
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
2) Re[2]: Anipryl
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
3) Re[2]: ravenous appetite
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
4) Re: Anipryl
by "SIGMUND OKONIEWSKI" <SOKONIEWSKI@worldnet.att.net>
5) A few observations
by "SIGMUND OKONIEWSKI" <SOKONIEWSKI@worldnet.att.net>
6) Re: A few observations (infections and paw-licking)
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
7) Re: A few observations
by kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
8) paw licking
by kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
9) Re: A few observations
by Spot210 <Spot210@aol.com>
10) Cushing's and Blindness
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
11) Re: Cushing's and Blindness
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
12) Paw Pads
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
13) Vaccinations & Suggestions Welcome
by Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
14) Re: A few observations
by Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
15) RE: Paw-licking
by hilbro@juno.com (H. Brown)
16) vaccinations
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
17) Bloat
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
18) Re: Vaccinations & Suggestions Welcome
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
19) Re: Vaccinations & Suggestions Welcome
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
20) "Paw Pads"
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
21) Re: vaccinations
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
22) Re: Cushing's and Blindness
by MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
23) Re: Maggie
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
24) Re: Maggie
by MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
25) Re: "New" Person
by "Janice Glosson" <jglosson@genevaonline.com>
26) Re: Paw Pads
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
27) Re: Anipryl
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
28) Re: Anipryl
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
29) Re: paw licking
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
30) Update
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
31) catching up/update on Feisal
by David & Irene Scott <dgscott@frontier.net>
32) Re: Update (sunny)
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
33) Bunny
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
34) Re: vaccinations
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
35) Re: vaccinations
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
36) Re: Update (sunny)
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
37) Re: vaccinations
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
38) Re: vaccinations
by Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
39) Daily HW Pills
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
40) Anipryl after 3 days
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
41) Re: vaccinations
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
42) Re: "New" Person
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
43) new puppy "Loki" update
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
44) Re: new puppy "Loki" update
by Jenice Smith <jsmith@bmi.net>
45) Re: Paw Pads
by Daniel Klein <dklein@li.net>
46) Re: vaccinations
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
47) Re: vaccinations
by "Janice Glosson" <jglosson@genevaonline.com>
48) Flea Control
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
49) Re: Flea Control
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
50) Generic Anipryl info
by "jeffbeth@interserv.com" <jeffbeth@interserv.com>
51) Re: Flea Control
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
52) Re: Flea Control
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
53) Re: Flea Control
by Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
54) why so much Cushings?
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
55) Paw Pads
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
56) Vaccinations
by L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
57) Re: why so much Cushings?
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
58) Re: Vaccinations
by Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
59) Re: why so much Cushings?
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
60) Re: Vaccinations
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
61) Re: why so much Cushings?
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
62) Generic Anipryl Info
by "jeffbeth@interserv.com" <jeffbeth@interserv.com>
63) different drug to treat cushings
by floyd@zianet.com
64) Re: different drug to treat cushings
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
65) Re: different drug to treat cushings
by "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
66) Re: Anipryl
by "jeffbeth@interserv.com" <jeffbeth@interserv.com>
67) Introduction
by kaykay2@ix.netcom.com
68) Re: Introduction
by Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
69) Maggie
by Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
70) Re: Bloat
by Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
71) Re: vaccinations
by Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
72) Re: Anipryl after 3 days
by Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
73) Re: vaccinations
by Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
74) Re: Introduction
by Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
75) Re: vaccinations
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
76) Re: Bloat
by HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
77) Re: Bloat
by Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:31:40 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: We're new to this group
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980316143140.0071ea7c@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello Sandi, I am so sorry for your loss with Alex, but know that he is at
the Rainbow Bridge having the best time of his life, Cushings is such a
strange disease for our babies, but I hope that Kipper does well, we will
keep you in our prayers as we do all the babies. Jackie, Randy, Sunny and Saphir

At 09:10 AM 3/15/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hello,
>I started monitoring your group about a month ago. I've learned alot!
>Here's our Cushings story:
>
>We had a 9 year old male basset/beagle mix named Alex who was
>diagnosed with Cushings. Alex was never a healthy specimen to begin
>with (he was on soloxine for thyroid imbalance and was incontinent)
>and this was the final straw for him. We put him on lysodren, and on
>the 3rd day he stopped eating and drinking, he vomited, had diarrhea,
>became extremely weak, and was leaking a rust red urine. There were
>red blotches under his skin. (internal bleeding?) We had him
>euthanized - he was near death and had suffered enough.
>
>Kipper the schipperke (also around 9) was diagnosed the following week
>with Cushings also. She had all the symptoms - hair loss, panting,
>weakness, excessive drinking, big appetite, distended belly. We put
>her on lysodren (reluctantly - I was afraid of the stuff after Alex)
>and she seemed to improve a bit after about 10 days on it. On day 12,
>she was drinking less and her appetite decreased, so we cut the
>lysodren dose in half. Day 13 started out with Kip vomiting up her
>breakfast and then refusing food and water for the rest of the
>morning. She was very weak and seemed disoriented, so in we went to
>the vet for a cortisone shot. We discontinued the lysodren and
>substituted a daily prednisolone pill for the next 2 days. She seems
>better now, her tail is wagging again and her appetite is back. We
>will start on depronel (sp?) and see how that works for her.
>
>Sandi
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

Jacqueline P. Siniard
Staff Assistant, Graduate Studies
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Materials Science Building Room C206
Huntsville, Alabama 35899
ph: 205-890-6002 Fax:205-890-6349
e-mail: siniardj@email.uah.edu

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:55:10 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Anipryl
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980316145510.0072ff20@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:49:09 -0600
>From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@redstone.army.mil>
>To: siniardj@email.uah.edu
>Subject: Re[2]: Anipryl
>
>
> Did your vet say why no more vaccinations or heartworm meds? It's
> something we would like to know. We live in the South, Alabama to be
> exact, and in Summer there are an enormous amount of fleas and ticks;
> also heartworm is a HUGE concern. Please inform us as to why no more
> vacs or heartworm meds? Randy, Jackie, Sunny and Saphir
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: Anipryl
>Author: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu at Internet
>Date: 3/14/98 9:34 AM
>
>
>My vet told me this week that Sweetie was not to have any more
>vaccinations. He also said no heartworm meds. This summer I'm going to use
>only herbal treatments for fleas and ticks.
>
>In the past two days I've increased her intake of cottage cheese and plain
>yoghurt, and I've seen good results re bloat decrease.
>
>Jenny & Sweetie
>jk@bradley.bradley.edu
>
>
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>Subject: Re: Anipryl
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Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:55:41 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re[2]: ravenous appetite
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980316145541.0073b6b0@email.uah.edu>
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>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:53:27 -0600
>From: SINIARD-RC <SINIARD-RC@redstone.army.mil>
>To: siniardj@email.uah.edu
>Subject: Re[2]: ravenous appetite
>
>
> We had originally thought the distended belly was from overeating.
> But we were better informed, by Dr. Chisholm at Auburn, that most of
> what we were seeing was not Sunny's stomach, but her liver. Sunny is
> still slung low, but it is her liver and nothing to do with her
> stomach. Ask your vet and see if it is your baby's liver that is
> "distended." Randy, Jackie, Sunny, and Saphir
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: RE: ravenous appetite
>Author: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu at Internet
>Date: 3/14/98 4:44 PM
>
>
>Hi,
>
>After reading so many posts where the symptoms are ravenous appetite, it makes
>me wonder. I'm having the opposite problem. Brandy won't eat. I have to mix
>turkey in with her regular food, and half the time she picks out the turkey
and
>leaves the rest. She doesn't look thin to me her abdomen is very
distended, but
>her weight is way down almost 8 lbs.
>
>I'm taking her Monday for her final set of testing to determine if it is
>Pituitary or Adrenal.
>
>Thanks for this great support group.
>
>Jacci & Brandy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Debthg [SMTP:Debthg@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 12:51 PM
>To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
>Subject: ravenous appetite
>
>Hello everyone! I have been lurking up until now. This is a great place! We
>have a 9yr old(next month) Bichon Frise who was just diagnosed with Cushing's
>(pituitary). He had his first dose of Anipryl today. He is on 10mg/day, weighs
>15lbs, and the cost is 69.70 for 30 tabs. His diagnosis was a result of blood
>work in relation to another chronic problem(bladder stones). His alk phos. was
>elevated so he then had a low dose dex. test which was positive for cushing's.
>He has not exhibited any signs nor symptom of the disease except for lately I
>am becoming convinced that his ravenous appetite is indeed a symptom, not just
>his usual pigish self, as it does all of a sudden seem to be getting to be a
>real problem. Hindsight is 20/20. I hope, hope, hope, that the Anipryl
>alleviates this. It must be so awful for him to feel so starved all the time
>and his constant teasing is driving me nuts. I feel so guilty eating in front
>of him. Does anyone else have this problem and if so has the treatment
>alleviated it?Thanks. It is nice to meet all of you. Debby, Gerry, and Buddy
>
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>To: "'cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'"
><cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
>Subject: RE: ravenous appetite
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Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:18:26 -0600
From: "SIGMUND OKONIEWSKI" <SOKONIEWSKI@worldnet.att.net>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Anipryl
Message-ID: <19980316162055.AAA13453@586>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Thanks for the suggestion. I was thinking of doing just that. I have
absolutely no quarrel with our vet whom we have gone to for 20 plus years
and he has always I feel given our animals his best care. His staff has
increased over the years which is probably the reason for the high cost.

Yes, I think we are an anipryl success story so far, but I just want to
make clear that I still see up and down variances of some of the Cushing's
signs and we are going to retest her this week and see if this 10mg dosage
is right for her.

Sue & Ginger

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:48:12 -0600
From: "SIGMUND OKONIEWSKI" <SOKONIEWSKI@worldnet.att.net>
To: <CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: A few observations
Message-ID: <19980316165036.AAA4515@586>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have read a couple of interesting things lately about our Cushing's dogs.

My Ginger, has not had any paw pad problems. But just think about what and
where they walk all the time and it would not be surprising to me that a
dog could easily pick up an infection. All it takes is a tiny cut or
opening in the skin for something to start. Is it possible that our dog's
immume systems are compromised by the Cushing's - so things their bodies
would normally fight off, overwelm their defense mechanisms? Just a
thought.

Also, Ginger, is licking her paws incessantly - the tops of her paws, not
the pads. She gets so involved that you can hear her licking at them
without even seeing her. When she looks up, her beard is all
slobbery-looking - I wonder if this could be a way of dealing with nausea?
Or is it just boredom? Any body else have any thoughts?

Her appetite is so-so. She eats what she is given but really doesn't beg
me for more and will munch on treats when given. She is also an absolute
bear to groom anymore especially her ears, so I try to do it in stages
instead of all at once.

Just a few of my observations. Thank you for sharing yours and helping us
through this disease process.

Sue O. & Ginger

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:22:52 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: A few observations (infections and paw-licking)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980316112252.0071cd14@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sue and others-

It's documented in the literature that Cushing's does cause dogs to be
especially susceptible to infections. Missy and Ivan both fought
pancreatitis, other dogs on this list have dealt with on-going ear
infections (perhaps this is why Ginger doesn't want to have her ears
groomed?), others (including our Missy) have experienced gum infections,
still others have recurrent urinary tract infections. I don't pretend to
understand exactly what the link is, but I know it's there.

As for Ginger's paws licking, perhaps it's a sign that her treatment is
working! Before she had Cushing's, our Missy was a constant paw-licker.
The vets attributed it to allergies and prescribed frequent doses of
cortisone (!!!!). We stopped giving her the cortisone pills about a year
and a half before her death, and surprisingly, her paw-licking didn't
return. (In retrospect we know it was because her body had taken over
production of cortisone.) Her paw-licking finally returned with a
vengeance after we started her Lysodren treatment. Our vet (not the one
who originally gave her all of that cortisone) attributed the return of the
paw-licking to the reduction in the amount of cortisone in her system. It
had been masked when her body was filled with steroids.

This brings up another point. With Missy, we noticed her lameness got much
worse after we began Lysodren. Our vet attributed that, too, to the
reduction in the amount of cortisone in her system. When she had all of
those steroids pumping through her system, her bad arthritis was masked.
After the Lysodren started working, the true nature of her arthritis shined
through.

A catch-22, huh....

-Leslie

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:25:33 -0800 (PST)
From: kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: A few observations
Message-ID: <199803161825.KAA05580@acme.csusb.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:48 AM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I have read a couple of interesting things lately about our Cushing's dogs.
>
>My Ginger, has not had any paw pad problems. But just think about what and
>where they walk all the time and it would not be surprising to me that a
>dog could easily pick up an infection. All it takes is a tiny cut or
>opening in the skin for something to start. Is it possible that our dog's
>immume systems are compromised by the Cushing's - so things their bodies
>would normally fight off, overwelm their defense mechanisms? Just a
>thought.

Our vet told us that Cushings results in a depressed immune system, leaving
the dog more vulnerable to all kinds of infections. This was the probable
cause of Ebony's constant gum infections.
--
>--------------------------------------------<
~Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!~ -dire straits
kathleen richards -- krichard@acme.csusb.edu or kilty@tstonramp.com

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:28:07 -0800 (PST)
From: kathleen richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: paw licking
Message-ID: <199803161828.KAA05700@acme.csusb.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Wow. Ebony licked her paws for the last couple of years of her life - her
front paws. I asked the vet and he said it was nothing. I was worried it
was arthritis. *sigh*
--
>--------------------------------------------<
~Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!~ -dire straits
kathleen richards -- krichard@acme.csusb.edu or kilty@tstonramp.com

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:43:30 EST
From: Spot210 <Spot210@aol.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: A few observations
Message-ID: <4d86299f.350d8ef4@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-03-16 13:28:44 EST, you write:

<< All it takes is a tiny cut or
>opening in the skin for something to start. Is it possible that our dog's
>immume systems are compromised by the Cushing's - so things their bodies
>would normally fight off, overwelm their defense mechanisms? Just a
>thought.

Our vet told us that Cushings results in a depressed immune system, leaving
the dog more vulnerable to all kinds of infections. This was the probable
cause of Ebony's constant gum infections.
-- >>
===
I was told today by a co-worker of mine that, when her dog was dx'd with
Cushing's, two years ago, her vet told her that it would make her dog more
susceptible to some forms of cancer. I suppose this would make sense, given
the depressed immune system. She added that the vet did not offer any
treatment options for the Cushing's, either. They were encouraged to put the
dog to sleep rather than watch their pet deteriorate and suffer. Based on
their vet's recommendations and their lack of understanding about the
condition, they followed his advice. She still regrets it.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:57:03 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Cushing's and Blindness
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980316165703.0073d8f4@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi folks-

I received a very nice note this weekend from a Caroline, a nurse who is
working on a book about living with blind dogs.

According to her, there seems to be some thought in the veterinary
community that SARDS (Suddenly Aquired Retinal Deterioration
Syndrome) might somehow be linked to Cushings. Do any of you know anything
about a connection? Do you know of any dogs who have gone blind with a
Cushings diagnosis?

I've told her that I was told of a link between a rapid onset of cataracts
and Cushing's, but I know nothing about SARDS. Have any of y'all heard
anything?

Please reply both to Caroline at <Carolevin@aol.com> and to the Cushing's
list.

-Leslie

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:18:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Cushing's and Blindness
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980316151705.19720A-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Ebony was losing her sight "suddenly" and they didn't see any cataracts to
speak of. We were told it was "probably just age catching up with her."

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Leslie Lawson wrote:

> Hi folks-
>
> I received a very nice note this weekend from a Caroline, a nurse who is
> working on a book about living with blind dogs.
>
> According to her, there seems to be some thought in the veterinary
> community that SARDS (Suddenly Aquired Retinal Deterioration
> Syndrome) might somehow be linked to Cushings. Do any of you know anything
> about a connection? Do you know of any dogs who have gone blind with a
> Cushings diagnosis?
>
> I've told her that I was told of a link between a rapid onset of cataracts
> and Cushing's, but I know nothing about SARDS. Have any of y'all heard
> anything?
>
> Please reply both to Caroline at <Carolevin@aol.com> and to the Cushing's
> list.
>
> -Leslie
>
>

--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:41:41 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Paw Pads
Message-ID: <350DAAA5.E4E21185@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Patty and Dan....

First of all....welcome!

Licking paws can mean a variety of things. It's best that you ask your
Vet about it. Heck..my Vet is getting ready to add me to his speed dial
I've asked him so many questions but he's been absolutely great...if he
doesn't know..he finds out and gets back to me!

What kind of medication is your dog on? How old is he? Introduce your
little guy to everyone! We'd love to meet him!

Linda & Schonus

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:24:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Vaccinations & Suggestions Welcome
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980316201147.21544C-100000@bradley.bradley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

About vaccinations or not, there's been a lot of discussion on internet in
the past few months. People on the Tibetan Dogs listserv directed me
to several sites, but I didn't save the addresses. I know there's another
list called "wellpets" or something like that. I will email someone who
told me about the controversy and have her send me some addresses, but I'm
on vacation so I may not post that information until next week. In the
meantime, I'd suggest going to www.dogpile.com/ and typing in your search
as <dogs and vaccinations>. I am sure you will find plenty there!

It is my understanding that if the dog's immune system is in a weakened
state, vaccinations can be harmful, maybe fatal.

Sweetie actually seemed improved today. She played ball and buried a bone
in the yard, then slept out the afternoon. I have now added echinacea,
milk thistle, cottage cheese and plain yoghurt to her diet (she was taking
glucosamine chondrate and multivitamin already) satisfactorily. Any other
suggestions for vitamins, herbs, massage

Jenny & Sweetie/Tibetan Terrier (I buried my bone where the bunny likes to
make nests. Ha! Maybe this year she'll stay away)

jk@bradley.bradley.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:39:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: A few observations
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980316203059.21544D-100000@bradley.bradley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

In response to (below), I have wondered many times how many dogs are
diagnosed as arthritic or just "old age" when in reality it's Cushings.

The way I see it, we are graced by our dogs' presences for a short while
and it is our responsibility as owners to try to assure them a long life,
pain-free and happy. I wouldn't dream of not fighting this menace, but
then I know we all feel the same.

Now I am also curious how many of us may have overused cortisone for
allergies, itches, etc. I think I am guilty, even though I instructed my
vet early on NOT to use much cortisone, ever.

Jenny (end of her soliloquoy now)
jk@bradley.bradley.edu

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Spot210 wrote:

> In a message dated 98-03-16 13:28:44 EST, you write:-
> ===
> I was told today by a co-worker of mine that, when her dog was dx'd with
> Cushing's, two years ago, her vet told her that it would make her dog more
> susceptible to some forms of cancer. I suppose this would make sense, given
> the depressed immune system. She added that the vet did not offer any
> treatment options for the Cushing's, either. They were encouraged to put the
> dog to sleep rather than watch their pet deteriorate and suffer. Based on
> their vet's recommendations and their lack of understanding about the
> condition, they followed his advice. She still regrets it.
>

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:00:14 EST
From: hilbro@juno.com (H. Brown)
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: RE: Paw-licking
Message-ID: <19980316.215525.9847.0.hilbro@juno.com>

Sorry, I deleted a string of messages including one from the paw-licker's
mommy, so not sure who it was.

If you have methodically ruled out other causes such as lick granuloma,
stress neurosis, injuries, arthritis, all of which would likely have
other presentations in addition to the licking, consider the following
which has always been the cause of our Cushing's dog's identical
behavior.

Even though your dog is just licking at the top on the fur, spread the
toes wide apart and look deep between them at the base of the web and
the inside of the digital bone area that runs the length of each toe. The
bare skin in there should be whitish unless this is a black dog. There
should be no sign at all of bright pink or redness, no noticeable heat,
no swellings or small bumps (with maybe even a pindot in the middle).
Rub deep in there with your finger and see what kind of reaction you get.
Check all the webs and insides; the licking doesn't necessarily reflect
the exact location of the itch. If in doubt, treat as below for a couple
of days and see what happens.

With our dog, dxed Cushings four years ago and beautifully managed on
mitotane, the very first sign of the original disease and now the first
sign of need for dosage adjustments, is the constant licking of the top
of the feet caused by an incipient fungal and sometimes secondary staph
infection of the skin deep between the toes, although the tops where he
licks look fine. We treat with Lamisil and, if culture is positive for
staph or other bax, the appropriate antibiotic. Obviously no steriods.
Results are dramatic within a couple of days.

Hilary

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

--UAAAB10216.890102506/r2.boston.juno.com--

--------- End forwarded message ----------

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:15:04 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: vaccinations
Message-ID: <305A5D7288@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

We did not renew Clea's vaccinations last summer, nor have we given her
heartworm medicine since then (when her Cushings was diagnosed and her health
deteriorated).
We also had a beagle (who had a particularly virulent form of lupis,
treated with small dosage of prednisolone), from whom we withheld vaccinations
during the last 6 years of his life, and he did fine. His downward spiral
began when we gave him medicine for whipworms (Tribriessen [?]).
Since Timmy and Little Rosti have not been feeling well, we have postponed
the renewal of their vaccinations. (Rosti has had a bad reaction to these
shots in each of the last three years.) When they go in this week for a
sterile urinalysis, they will also have a special blood test (called a "titer"
[?]) that should tell us whether their systems are protected by the
vaccinations they have already had, and therefore would not need shots right
now. Our vet says that we can go ahead and give Timmy and Rosti their monthly
heartworm pills, but we're a little worried about it. We expect a high
mosquito season this year in Charlottesville (our summers are very humid), so
we'll probably continue to give these pills to them.

Tom and Maria
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:17:29 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Bloat
Message-ID: <30643A42A9@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Jenny--

What is "bloat"?

Thanks.
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:23:55 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vaccinations & Suggestions Welcome
Message-ID: <350E08EB.5F65C5D0@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Suggestion:

along with the cottage cheese (which is a sulfured protein) it would be
beneficial to add flaxseed oil: 1 tablespoon daily per 50# of body weight,
adjust accordingly.
Purchase from a Whole Foods or healthful store--make sure it is refrigerated
at time of purchase and always keep refrigerated.

Jenny Kellstedt wrote:

> About vaccinations or not, there's been a lot of discussion on internet in
> the past few months. People on the Tibetan Dogs listserv directed me
> to several sites, but I didn't save the addresses. I know there's another
> list called "wellpets" or something like that. I will email someone who
> told me about the controversy and have her send me some addresses, but I'm
> on vacation so I may not post that information until next week. In the
> meantime, I'd suggest going to www.dogpile.com/ and typing in your search
> as <dogs and vaccinations>. I am sure you will find plenty there!
>
> It is my understanding that if the dog's immune system is in a weakened
> state, vaccinations can be harmful, maybe fatal.
>
> Sweetie actually seemed improved today. She played ball and buried a bone
> in the yard, then slept out the afternoon. I have now added echinacea,
> milk thistle, cottage cheese and plain yoghurt to her diet (she was taking
> glucosamine chondrate and multivitamin already) satisfactorily. Any other
> suggestions for vitamins, herbs, massage
>
> Jenny & Sweetie/Tibetan Terrier (I buried my bone where the bunny likes to
> make nests. Ha! Maybe this year she'll stay away)
>
> jk@bradley.bradley.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:25:55 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vaccinations & Suggestions Welcome
Message-ID: <350E0963.D35A1B7E@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

another suggestion: incorporate a good B-complex (balanced 50) vitamin, B
vitamins are beneficial for damaged livers.

Jenny Kellstedt wrote:

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:24:02 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: "Paw Pads"
Message-ID: <30807364C3@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Little Rosti & Timmy (who are on a "Cushings watch"--tests so far are
negative, but they seem to be showing some of the symptoms and liver enzymes
are elevated) have been licking and chewing their front paws for more than a
year. Sometimes they (especially Rosti) chew them until there is a pinkish
stain in bedding on which they are lying when they do this. We have had their
paws examined on several occasions, and, with one exception (there was an
abcess which quickly cleared up with antibiotics), have found nothing.
Scrapings showed nothing unusual. They were treated with antibiotics and
soaking paws in epsom salts baths (didn't work); then we were told that it was
either an allergy (apparently paw licking or chewing is a classic allergic
response) or even a nervous habit like some people bite their fingernails.
When they additionally started grinding their faces into the ground like they
had an itch they couldn't reach, we went to a new vet. They have been taking
an antihistomine, Hydroxyzine, which helps a little but not much. At least,
Rosti does not chew his paws so vigorously that there are signs of bleeding.
(It's interesting that they only chew the front paws and not the hind paws.)
We wonder whether the chewing and itching might be a symptom of Cushings
or a primary liver problem, but we can't confirm it in our reading or thru
veterinary examination. From the messages on this listserv, it seems like
there are a few of us experiencing this problem.

Tom and Maria
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:31:30 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <350E0AB2.22F533D1@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

if you feel the necessity of heart worm pills, I recommend the daily pill, not the
monthly. I am not a vet, but daily pills seem to be the prefered method.

Tom White wrote:

> We did not renew Clea's vaccinations last summer, nor have we given her
> heartworm medicine since then (when her Cushings was diagnosed and her health
> deteriorated).
> We also had a beagle (who had a particularly virulent form of lupis,
> treated with small dosage of prednisolone), from whom we withheld vaccinations
> during the last 6 years of his life, and he did fine. His downward spiral
> began when we gave him medicine for whipworms (Tribriessen [?]).
> Since Timmy and Little Rosti have not been feeling well, we have postponed
> the renewal of their vaccinations. (Rosti has had a bad reaction to these
> shots in each of the last three years.) When they go in this week for a
> sterile urinalysis, they will also have a special blood test (called a "titer"
> [?]) that should tell us whether their systems are protected by the
> vaccinations they have already had, and therefore would not need shots right
> now. Our vet says that we can go ahead and give Timmy and Rosti their monthly
> heartworm pills, but we're a little worried about it. We expect a high
> mosquito season this year in Charlottesville (our summers are very humid), so
> we'll probably continue to give these pills to them.
>
> Tom and Maria
> Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
> E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:09:29 -0500 (EST)
From: MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Cc: carolevin@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cushing's and Blindness
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980317010545.500258B-100000@trentu.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Leslie Lawson wrote:

> According to her, there seems to be some thought in the veterinary
> community that SARDS (Suddenly Aquired Retinal Deterioration
> Syndrome) might somehow be linked to Cushings. Do any of you know anything
> about a connection? Do you know of any dogs who have gone blind with a
> Cushings diagnosis?
>
> I've told her that I was told of a link between a rapid onset of cataracts
> and Cushing's, but I know nothing about SARDS. Have any of y'all heard
> anything?
>
The only thing I've ever heard which might apply is about mineralization
of the corneas. Is that another term for cataracts? If so, please ignore
me :)
The vet thinks Maggie will have permanent blindspots in her eyes, but at
least that's better than her original estimate: blindness.

I've never heard of SARDS, so unfortunately can't help there.

Lia, Maggie, and Mitzi

==============================================================================
"The slogan `Vote for me and I'll lend you my pants', can often be
misconstrued" ---Jerry Boyle, This Hour Has 22 Minutes
Lia M Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess of the Procrastinators
lmbrown@trentu.ca anlmb@blaze.trentu.ca
==============================================================================
Palpatine's dead. Vote Wedge. Antilles/Celchu '00!

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:24:15 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Maggie
Message-ID: <31810B6006@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dave Roberts wrote--

> I have read with concern the postings from Lia Brown regarding her Maggie
> and the helplessness she feels at being unable to afford to provide
> vetrinary care for her. I have contacted Lia and obtained her postal
> address. Eileen and I have forwarded a small contribution to assist Lia in
> her efforts. I know it is an unusual procedure to post a person's personal
> address, but I also know that we, as a group, are a very caring bunch of dog
> lovers. If you feel you can do anything to help Lia and Maggie, Lia's
> address is:-
>
> Lia BROWN, 677 Aylmer Street North, Upper Apartment, Peterborough,
> Ontario, K9H 3X5, Canada.
>
> I also intend to contact the manufacturers of Anipryl and acquaint them
> with Lia's dilemma. Maybe they will take Maggie on as a test case or just
> return something for the profits they reap from the rest of us.
> Be guided by your hearts,
> Eileen and Dave ROBERTS - Terrible Ted likes the idea, too!!

We think that this is a great idea! We're sending a small contribution to Lia
today, with Clea's blessing.

We were wondering if Dr. Mason might check his list of doctors and specialists
to see if there might be a friendly vet in Lia's area who might take Maggie
under his/her wing at a minimal charge. And, perhaps one of the vets out there
who is "quietly reading" us for their own personal research purposes (and not
offering advice or information) might have aheart and contact Lia to offer her
a little assistance.

Tom, Maria and the Kids--Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti.
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:50:56 -0500 (EST)
From: MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Maggie
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980317013952.500258B-100000@trentu.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Tom White wrote:

> Dave Roberts wrote--
>
> > I have read with concern the postings from Lia Brown regarding her Maggie
> > and the helplessness she feels at being unable to afford to provide
> > vetrinary care for her. I have contacted Lia and obtained her postal
> > address. Eileen and I have forwarded a small contribution to assist Lia in
> > her efforts. I know it is an unusual procedure to post a person's personal
> > address, but I also know that we, as a group, are a very caring bunch of dog
> > lovers. If you feel you can do anything to help Lia and Maggie, Lia's
> > address is:-
> >
> > Lia BROWN, 677 Aylmer Street North, Upper Apartment, Peterborough,
> > Ontario, K9H 3X5, Canada.
> >
> > I also intend to contact the manufacturers of Anipryl and acquaint them
> > with Lia's dilemma. Maybe they will take Maggie on as a test case or just
> > return something for the profits they reap from the rest of us.
> > Be guided by your hearts,
> > Eileen and Dave ROBERTS - Terrible Ted likes the idea, too!!
>
> We think that this is a great idea! We're sending a small contribution to Lia
> today, with Clea's blessing.
>
> We were wondering if Dr. Mason might check his list of doctors and specialists
> to see if there might be a friendly vet in Lia's area who might take Maggie
> under his/her wing at a minimal charge. And, perhaps one of the vets out there
> who is "quietly reading" us for their own personal research purposes (and not
> offering advice or information) might have aheart and contact Lia to offer her
> a little assistance.
>
> Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
>
Wow. That's all I can really say, other than thank you all very much! It
means a lot to me (and Maggie too, I'm sure) that people care so much. We
really appreciate the efforts of Dave Roberts and the Whites for us, and
even if nothing really works out, the thought is very nice :)

Mags is worrying me a bit these past two days, as she's been trembling and
panting a lot (signs of pain, apparently; my mother forwarded me a list of
pain signs in dogs---should I post it here?). She's also not eating very
well. I can only hope this is just a brief phase she's going through, but
something tells me it isn't :(

Again, I want to emphasize how grateful I am for these offers of help.
It's a small load off my mind as I go into the last month and a half
(hopefully!) of university (lots of work).
Take care, all, and hugs and kisses to all the woogies (pups).

Lia

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:25:18 -0600
From: "Janice Glosson" <jglosson@genevaonline.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: "New" Person
Message-ID: <199803171328.HAA01872@battleship.genevaonline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi!

I have been reading your postings for the past 5 months and haven't had the
time to add my 2 cents. Still don't have the time but here goes anyway---

I have a mini poodle who was diagnosed with Cushing's in Oct. 1996. She
had been on Prednisone for a pinched nerve 6 months before that. No vets
will acknowledge a connection. I immediately went to a holistic vet (with
my regular vet's blessing) and tried holistic treatments for 10 months.
These consisted of vitamin and enzyme theragpy, a natural diet, NO
VACCINATIONS OR SURGERY. We did manage to get her Cortisol level down to 6
but the ACTH stim test levels were always too high. She also lost most of
her hair, was constantly bloated and always hungry.

"Annie" is 7 years old now and is a working Agility dog. She loves her
Agility almost as much as she loves her food! Anyway, my regular vet put
her on Anipryl for 4 months with no success. By the way, he told me that
his wholesale price for Anipryl is $52.00 for 30 pills no matter what the
size so he sold me the 30 mg. size to split. Not easy splitting
pentagonal-shaped pills into thirds! Unfortunately, the Anipryl did not
work for Annie. It did get rid of the pot belly and make her thought
processes work in the genius range (we had a tough time keeping ahead of
her and finding food!) but did not bring the post-ACTH numbers back to
where they belong. So, in December she was put on the Lysodren. My vet
used a conservative approach to loading--1/2 pill every day for 7 days,
then 1/2 pill every other day for 7 days, then 1/2 pill every third day.
For the first 10 days, she was also on Prednisone (5 mg.) with each
Lysodren treatment. She came through fine--never a problem or lack of
appetite. She has been on a maintenance dose of 1/2 pill every other day.
Her water consumption is now normal but she has lost most of her hair and
is still pot bellied and is losing muscle mass. Her ACTH stim test last
week showed a Cortisol level of 7 and post ACTH level of 9.2. My vet has
upped her Lysodren to 1/4 pill every 4th day in addition to the 1/2 every
other day.

Has anyone had any experience with Cushing's dogs breaking bones, tearing
muscles or tendons? Since Annie is still working in Agility, she must be
in top physical condition but I am worried about her wasting muscles. Both
of my vets say to show her as long as she is willing but.....

According to the holistic vet, the daily heartworm pills are much safer. I
had a dog who had a litter of puppies 10 days early, 2 days after I gave
her the monthly heartworm pill. All were born dead. Coincidence? I don't
think so.

I have learned a lot on this board. Thanks!

Janice & Annie
----------
> From: MAD PRAETOR <lmbrown@trentu.ca>
> To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> Subject: Re: Maggie
> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 12:50 AM
>
> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Tom White wrote:
>
> > Dave Roberts wrote--
> >
> > > I have read with concern the postings from Lia Brown regarding her
Maggie
> > > and the helplessness she feels at being unable to afford to provide
> > > vetrinary care for her. I have contacted Lia and obtained her postal
> > > address. Eileen and I have forwarded a small contribution to assist
Lia in
> > > her efforts. I know it is an unusual procedure to post a person's
personal
> > > address, but I also know that we, as a group, are a very caring bunch
of dog
> > > lovers. If you feel you can do anything to help Lia and Maggie, Lia's
> > > address is:-
> > >
> > > Lia BROWN, 677 Aylmer Street North, Upper Apartment,
Peterborough,
> > > Ontario, K9H 3X5, Canada.
> > >
> > > I also intend to contact the manufacturers of Anipryl and
acquaint them
> > > with Lia's dilemma. Maybe they will take Maggie on as a test case or
just
> > > return something for the profits they reap from the rest of us.
> > > Be guided by your hearts,
> > > Eileen and Dave ROBERTS - Terrible Ted likes the idea, too!!
> >
> > We think that this is a great idea! We're sending a small contribution
to Lia
> > today, with Clea's blessing.
> >
> > We were wondering if Dr. Mason might check his list of doctors and
specialists
> > to see if there might be a friendly vet in Lia's area who might take
Maggie
> > under his/her wing at a minimal charge. And, perhaps one of the vets
out there
> > who is "quietly reading" us for their own personal research purposes
(and not
> > offering advice or information) might have aheart and contact Lia to
offer her
> > a little assistance.
> >
> > Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
> >
> Wow. That's all I can really say, other than thank you all very much!
It
> means a lot to me (and Maggie too, I'm sure) that people care so much.
We
> really appreciate the efforts of Dave Roberts and the Whites for us, and
> even if nothing really works out, the thought is very nice :)
>
> Mags is worrying me a bit these past two days, as she's been trembling
and
> panting a lot (signs of pain, apparently; my mother forwarded me a list
of
> pain signs in dogs---should I post it here?). She's also not eating very
> well. I can only hope this is just a brief phase she's going through,
but
> something tells me it isn't :(
>
> Again, I want to emphasize how grateful I am for these offers of help.
> It's a small load off my mind as I go into the last month and a half
> (hopefully!) of university (lots of work).
> Take care, all, and hugs and kisses to all the woogies (pups).
>
> Lia
>
>
============================================================================
==
> "The slogan `Vote for me and I'll lend you my pants', can often be
> misconstrued" ---Jerry Boyle, This Hour Has 22 Minutes
> Lia M Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess of the
Procrastinators
> lmbrown@trentu.ca anlmb@blaze.trentu.ca
>
============================================================================
==
> Palpatine's dead. Vote Wedge. Antilles/Celchu '00!
>

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:06:04 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Paw Pads
Message-ID: <9803170906.ZM7642@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Some Cushnoids can have a reduced immune response. All of us have a certain
amount of staph on our skin. Normally, this is no problem. In Ivan's case, he
had recurring staph infections for almost a year before Cushings was diagnosed.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:19:56 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Anipryl
Message-ID: <9803170920.ZM8256@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Segeline hydrochloride or l-deprinyl

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:30:46 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Anipryl
Message-ID: <9803170930.ZM8840@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The vaccinations (except for rabies) I can understand, but not the heartworm
medication. Heartworms in a Cushings dog is a death sentence,as the treatment
is very severe (even the improvment over arsenic is harsh).

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:11:05 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: paw licking
Message-ID: <9803171111.ZM14392@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

So did Ivan. Dr. Smith said it was mild allergies and we couldn't do anything
about it because of the Cushings.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:13:35 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Update
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980317211335.006f5420@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Okay, you are all probably thinking "Oh no not her again" Joke really, Hello
everyone, Sunny did not have a good day today, since we last spoke, she has
not been on any medication since Wed of last week because her ACTH results
came back high, Pre was 112 and Post 802, so it was decided to leave her
free for one week and do another ACTH test today, we gave her only one
prednisone on Thursday of last week because her water intake dropped so much
that we needed her to drink. If this result is high, then we have to go to
Auburn for an ultrasound, she should have responded by now. As for the
licking thing that everyone has been talking about, I checked with Dr.
Chisholm at Auburn when I was there a few weeks ago because Sunny does it
constantly and she said it could be her teeth, that if they were looked at
which she said they should be once we have her stable, she needs to go on an
"Antibiotic" drip while they clean her teeth or whatever needs to be done,
this should be done on ALL Cushings pups because of the bacteria getting
into there blood stream and causing problems. Sorry everyone for going on,
my fingers get carried away, hugs and kisses to all the babies, pray for
good LOW, LOW results, Jackie, Randy, SUNNY and Saphir XXXXOOOO

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:14:48 -0700
From: David & Irene Scott <dgscott@frontier.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: catching up/update on Feisal
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980317141448.007984f0@frontier.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've been out of the country for the last two weeks and am still catching
up with the postings from the group. My last communication regarding my 10
year old sheltie, Feisal, was that we were waiting for a more definitive
diagnosis as to the source of his cushings, ie, adrenal or pituitary tumor.
While I was gone the verdict came in. It's pituitary. In light of the
therapeutic failure we had with anipryl(selegiline) we will be returning to
lysodren (mitotane) for treatment.
Since there has been much conversation from the group regarding
anipryl vs. lysodren, I thought I'd toss my experience in. Feisal was
stabilized on lysodren several months ago when we decided that due to some
unpleasant recurring side effects we would try anipryl. Liver enzymes shot
way back up, all lab values pointed to cushings that was out of control,
and the side effects that we saw with lysodren, diarrhea, lack of appetite,
were transient but still present. We followed with an ultrasound and liver
biopsy. We have also tried some homeopathic treatments and made some major
diet changes which, I believe, have made his quality of life a little
better. Specifically his appetite is much improved and shows some increase
in energy levels. But, we're back to the resumption of lysodren this week.
The consulting vet that performed the ultrasound/liver biopsy stated they
are seeing a very high failure rate with anipryl.

A couple of comments on cost factors and sources of drugs for treating our
guys: (sorry, I'm a pharmacist a couple of days a week)
Anipryl is Selegiline Hcl. Pfizer has recently acquired the rights to the
drug on the vet side BUT this drug has been available for human use for
several years to treat parkinson's disease and is available as Eldyprl
(made by Parke-Davis co). Recently it has become available generically as
Selegiline Hcl (in 5mg tabs) and is manufactured by several companies. Said
differently, it is available generically from your local drugstore. The
acquisition price to your pharmacist should be no more than $26.83 per
bottle of 60 tabs(Note the 5mg per tab) That's his net cost.
Lysodren(mitotane) 500mg tabs is manufactured by Bristol labs and has
been used for some time as a chemotherapeutic agent in humans and animals.
It costs your corner drugstore $195.38 per 100 tabs. Again, that is net cost.
Prednisone is cheap. A bottle of 100 1mg tabs cost the pharmacy about
$1.25 at most.
Without getting into the differences in net cost vs "average wholesale price"
these cost figures are what most pharmacies pay for these meds, many pay
less due to larger buying discounts. A suggestion to save some money on
these drugs: call several pharmacies in your area and get price quotes on
the stock bottles (pharmacies always will give you a better price quote if
they don't have to break a bottle, and keep in stock, drugs like lysodren).
You can always have your vet write a prescription and have it filled by
that pharmacy that gives you the best price quote. Neither Lysodren nor
selegiline are "loss leaders" so pharmacies take their higher markups with
these types of drugs.
Hope this helps.
Dave

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:27:45 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Update (sunny)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980317152745.007181a8@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Oh Jackie, it pains me to hear that Sunny and your family are experiencing
such trials and tribulations. Poor Sunny must feel like a real pin cushion!

I'm still having trouble with the fact that it's taking so long for them to
get Sunny in for her ultrasound. My fingers are crossed that the results
of that imaging are encouraging (I'm cheering for a tumor!!).

Do know that we're all thinking about you and we're with you in spirit.

-Leslie

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:46:06 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Bunny
Message-ID: <40DF1C3895@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On Monday, March 16, Sweetie wrote:

>I buried my bone where the bunny likes to make nests. Ha! Maybe this year
>she'll stay away

Dear Sweetie,
My babies (Timothy and Little Rosti) did that last year--and guess what?
The Easter Bunny didn't stop by our house with a basket full of doggy treats.
I think the Easter Bunny holds grudges.
Hugs & Licks,
Clea

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:49:52 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <40EF454F9D@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On Tuesday, March 17, H.D. Bliley wrote:

> if you feel the necessity of heart worm pills, I recommend the daily pill, not the
> monthly. I am not a vet, but daily pills seem to be the prefered method.

Oops. We give Tim and Little Rosti their once-a-month heartworm pills before
we saw your note. I guess we have 2 little experiments perking away now.
We'll keep all posted.

Is there a brand name for the daily pills you mentioned?

Thanks.
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:57:15 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <9803171557.ZM29826@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Ivan and Molly received Filarabits for almost their entire lives (all of poor
Molly's). We were told that the Filarabits Plus was not desirable for Ivan,
and switched to the once a month at that time. That was about July of 95.
Still not sure one way or the other, but Ivan seems to be the exception to
almost every rule I've run into.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:03:59 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Update (sunny)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980317220359.0071e98c@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks Leslie

At 03:27 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Oh Jackie, it pains me to hear that Sunny and your family are experiencing
>such trials and tribulations. Poor Sunny must feel like a real pin cushion!
>
>I'm still having trouble with the fact that it's taking so long for them to
>get Sunny in for her ultrasound. My fingers are crossed that the results
>of that imaging are encouraging (I'm cheering for a tumor!!).
>
>Do know that we're all thinking about you and we're with you in spirit.
>
>-Leslie
>
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:46:46 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <350EFD55.5364ACF3@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DA95C6CF87466A46FE35A9A6"

--------------DA95C6CF87466A46FE35A9A6
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Hi Guys--the daily pills are less toxic, thus the preference. I do not know precisely
of a brand name, but maybe "Filarabits"--somehow that comes to mind.
Search the web for <heartworm+pills> and see what you get, or ask a vet.

I know what a problems all of this is--having learned the hard way--therefore, I
strongly recommend good natural diet, cottage cheese and flaxseed oil, Vits: C, B- 50
complex, E, selenium. Vit C will help to acidify the urine in situations with Cushings,
plus it is necessary and desirable for bucking up the immune system. Unfortunately,
these days caring for a pet dog requires lots of knowledge, but fortunately, we have the
net and great search engines: recommend searching on vet, petvet, dog+vitamins,
dog+health, natural+dog+food, etc.

A lot of the time it is necessary for you to educate the vet and ask, ask, ask,

good luck--Henry

Tom White wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 17, H.D. Bliley wrote:
>
> > if you feel the necessity of heart worm pills, I recommend the daily pill, not the
> > monthly. I am not a vet, but daily pills seem to be the prefered method.
>
> Oops. We give Tim and Little Rosti their once-a-month heartworm pills before
> we saw your note. I guess we have 2 little experiments perking away now.
> We'll keep all posted.
>
> Is there a brand name for the daily pills you mentioned?
>
> Thanks.
> Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
> E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

--------------DA95C6CF87466A46FE35A9A6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Hi Guys--the daily pills are less toxic, thus the preference.  I do
not know precisely of a brand name, but maybe "Filarabits"--somehow that
comes to mind.
 Search the web for <heartworm+pills> and see what you get, or ask
a vet.

I know what a problems all of this is--having learned the hard way--therefore,
I strongly recommend good natural diet, cottage cheese and flaxseed oil,
Vits: C, B- 50 complex, E, selenium.  Vit C will help to acidify the
urine in situations with Cushings, plus it is necessary and desirable for
bucking up the immune system.  Unfortunately, these days caring for
a pet dog requires lots of knowledge, but fortunately, we have the net
and great search engines: recommend searching on vet, petvet, dog+vitamins,
dog+health, natural+dog+food, etc.

A lot of the time it is necessary for you to educate the vet and ask,
ask, ask,

good luck--Henry

Tom White wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>On Tuesday, March 17, H.D. Bliley wrote:

> if you feel the necessity of heart worm pills, I recommend the daily
pill, not the
 > monthly.  I am not a vet, but daily pills seem to be the prefered
method.

Oops.  We give Tim and Little Rosti their once-a-month heartworm
pills before
 we saw your note.  I guess we have 2 little experiments perking
away now.
 We'll keep all posted.

Is there a brand name for the daily pills you mentioned?

Thanks.
 Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
 E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu</BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

--------------DA95C6CF87466A46FE35A9A6--

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:34:12 -0600
From: Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <350F0873.6424@sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

HD Bliley wrote:
>
> Hi Guys--the daily pills are less toxic, thus the preference.

I talked to my vets yesterday (the one at the veterinary teaching
hospital who diagnosed Vincent and my new local vet) about vaccinations
and heartworm pills.

The vet at the hospital wasn't too concerned about the vaccinations, but
said I should give Vince the once-a-month heartworm pills, as they were
*less* toxic than the daily.

The local vet (who calls herself a holistic vet) had the same opinion
about the heartworm pills, but said Vince ought to get his shots one at
a time instead of all together.

So much information out there. I just don't know what to believe.

I am supplementing Vincent's kibble now with either eggs, ground turkey
or cottage cheese and a mixture of nutritional yeast, lecithin granules,
bonemeal, kelp powder, and vitamins A, C, and E. (This is all from "Dr.
Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats"). After the
kibble is gone I plan to move him to an all fresh foods diet. I don't
know if it's helping, but Vince loves it!

Oh yeah, my cat is getting tested for Cushing's in a couple of weeks.
She's having some general health problems (bad teeth, frequent
urination, ear problems). Thyroid tests came out normal. And come to
find out the eye drops she's been on daily for the past eight years for
Pannus are steroids. Whoopee.

Take care, all.

Sandy and Vincent

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:16:32 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Daily HW Pills
Message-ID: <350F0450.51D6DA7F@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tom, Maria, Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti....

My dog Schonus is allergic to Ivermectin which is found in the monthly
heartworm pill. He takes a daily pill called Carbam. We order it
directly thru our Vet. If my memory serves me right, I think it's only
about $10 a bottle for 300 tablets. The daily pills are given according
to weight. Schonus gets 3 pills a day. The pills are film coated and
real easy to give.

Linda & Schonus

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:21:24 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Anipryl after 3 days
Message-ID: <350F0574.ADEF5DEA@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jenny.....

You should have called your Vet YESTERDAY!!

Linda

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:20:21 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <350F3D74.E95449F3@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C6CC005BDC39D46E967CDBAC"

--------------C6CC005BDC39D46E967CDBAC
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Dear folks: I am not a vet, but I have always been told that one-a-day pills
are easier on the pet--my preference is no heartworm pills at all. I have
stopped giving them to my pet, and leave the question up to the feelings of
the owner, who is, after all, the true arbiter of the pet's well-being.

In the past I gave my dogs the monthly heart worm pills only because I was
afraid
that I would forget to remember the daily pills--only after I lost my 11yo
Weimaraner in March of '97 (due to kidney failure) did I learn about the
'supposed' preference for the daily pill. Unfortunately, we all seem to be
going to school on our beloved pets--loosing my Weimaraner last March was
the darkest day of my life, and stayed that way for three months.

Now, the only medication that I give my Vizsla, aside from rabies shots, is
a one- time application of Top-Spot (I think that is the name) for the month
of October when we take our Vizsla to Nantucket where ticks are diabolical.

The all natural diet is great, the vitamins are great too--I give fresh
veggies also for the enzmyes they provide, and cooked greens such as
collards and broccoli. Plus I really belive in flaxseed oil along with
low-fat cottage cheese. I also recommend Solid Gold kibble and Sea-Meal.

I wish I really knew the final answer re the heart worm medication--dig
around on the net and it might pop-up.

good luck to all in the search for truth. Henry Bliley

Sandy Hempe wrote:

> HD Bliley wrote:
> >
> > Hi Guys--the daily pills are less toxic, thus the preference.
>
> I talked to my vets yesterday (the one at the veterinary teaching
> hospital who diagnosed Vincent and my new local vet) about vaccinations
> and heartworm pills.
>
> The vet at the hospital wasn't too concerned about the vaccinations, but
> said I should give Vince the once-a-month heartworm pills, as they were
> *less* toxic than the daily.
>
> The local vet (who calls herself a holistic vet) had the same opinion
> about the heartworm pills, but said Vince ought to get his shots one at
> a time instead of all together.
>
> So much information out there. I just don't know what to believe.
>
> I am supplementing Vincent's kibble now with either eggs, ground turkey
> or cottage cheese and a mixture of nutritional yeast, lecithin granules,
> bonemeal, kelp powder, and vitamins A, C, and E. (This is all from "Dr.
> Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats"). After the
> kibble is gone I plan to move him to an all fresh foods diet. I don't
> know if it's helping, but Vince loves it!
>
> Oh yeah, my cat is getting tested for Cushing's in a couple of weeks.
> She's having some general health problems (bad teeth, frequent
> urination, ear problems). Thyroid tests came out normal. And come to
> find out the eye drops she's been on daily for the past eight years for
> Pannus are steroids. Whoopee.
>
> Take care, all.
>
> Sandy and Vincent

--------------C6CC005BDC39D46E967CDBAC
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Dear folks: I am not a vet, but I have always been told that one-a-day
pills are easier on the pet--my preference is no heartworm pills at
all.  I have stopped giving them to my pet, and leave the question
up to the feelings of the owner, who is, after all, the true arbiter of
the pet's well-being.

In the past I gave my dogs the monthly heart worm pills only because
I was afraid
 that I would forget to remember the daily pills--only after I lost
my 11yo Weimaraner in March of '97 (due to kidney failure) did I learn
about the 'supposed' preference for the daily pill.  Unfortunately,
we all seem to be going to school on our beloved pets--loosing my Weimaraner
last March was the darkest day of my life, and stayed that way for three
months.

Now, the only medication that I give my Vizsla, aside from rabies shots,
is a one- time application of Top-Spot (I think that is the name) for the
month of October when we take our Vizsla to Nantucket where ticks are diabolical.

The all natural diet is great, the vitamins are great too--I give fresh
veggies also for the enzmyes they provide, and cooked greens such as collards
and broccoli.  Plus I really belive in flaxseed oil along with low-fat
cottage cheese. I also recommend Solid Gold kibble and Sea-Meal.

I wish I really knew the final answer re the heart worm medication--dig
around on the net and it might pop-up.

good luck to all in the search for truth.  Henry Bliley

Sandy Hempe wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>HD Bliley wrote:
 >
 > Hi Guys--the daily pills are less toxic, thus the preference.

I talked to my vets yesterday (the one at the veterinary teaching
 hospital who diagnosed Vincent and my new local vet) about vaccinations
 and heartworm pills.

The vet at the hospital wasn't too concerned about the vaccinations,
but
 said I should give Vince the once-a-month heartworm pills, as they
were
 *less* toxic than the daily.

The local vet (who calls herself a holistic vet) had the same opinion
 about the heartworm pills, but said Vince ought to get his shots one
at
 a time instead of all together.

So much information out there.  I just don't know what to believe.

I am supplementing Vincent's kibble now with either eggs, ground turkey
 or cottage cheese and a mixture of nutritional yeast, lecithin granules,
 bonemeal, kelp powder, and vitamins A, C, and E.  (This is all
from "Dr.
 Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats").
After the
 kibble is gone I plan to move him to an all fresh foods diet. I don't
 know if it's helping, but Vince loves it!

Oh yeah, my cat is getting tested for Cushing's in a couple of weeks.
 She's having some general health problems (bad teeth, frequent
 urination, ear problems).  Thyroid tests came out normal. 
And come to
 find out the eye drops she's been on daily for the past eight years
for
 Pannus are steroids.  Whoopee.

Take care, all.

Sandy and Vincent</BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

--------------C6CC005BDC39D46E967CDBAC--

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:32:32 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: jglosson@genevaonline.com
Cc: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: "New" Person
Message-ID: <350F4E5D.CBFA05B8@cynet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Janice, you might have them check Annie's thyroid also - sometimes
hypothyroid (too little) will cause the hair not to grow back, and it
seems to go hand in hand with Cushings. I know that Bo's hair showed no
sign of coming back, even after first Lysodren treatment, until he
started taking thyroid meds - then came back in great (after a shedding
of entrie layer of skin) and has been fairly luxurious ever since.

By the way, fellow list members, Bo just passed an ACTH Stim test with
flying colors. His cortisol was very slightly elevated, but vet thought
that was o.k., since he has no symptoms, and vet would rather see
Lysodren maintenance on the conservative side.
Judy

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:00:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: new puppy "Loki" update
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980317193322.9940A-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Several people wrote and asked me for an "update" on the new puppy, so I
thought I'd just send one here. I hope that's ok. I seem to be going up
and down since Ebony's death. The new puppy is helping, but sometimes I
do wish he were her - even though I know that's not fair to him.

He is half Pomeranian and half-terrier. After pouring over a bunch of web
sites we are pretty sure the terrier half is all or mostly Cairn terrier.
I hope to take some pictures soon. Maybe I can scan them and pictures of
Ebony for the group here. Anyway, we named him "Loki" - a Norse god of
mischief. Truly, it fits! He was born Jan. 1, 1998 so he is about 10
weeks old. He had the worst worms when I got him - tapeworm and
roundworms. I haven't had an actual puppy puppy (we took the rescue dogs
when they were about 5 months old) since Ebony and she was 18 when she
died, so I had forgotten about, um, biting... my hand is so much better
than *any* of his many toys! he is spoiled... he has three stuffed
"doughnuts" - his favorites - one for home, one for the car, and one for
my office at work (where I sneak him in at least three days a week when my
boss is out). He has a small rubber ball, a bigger rubber ball, a tiny
Kong, a nylon or some such bone, a "doggie bagel" (a VERY hard bagel made
from a recipe with dog-safe stuff), a toilet paper roll, lots of bits of
paper and an empty trash bag box. We carry most of this around with us in
what amounts to a "doggie-diaperbag". One of the things I wanted to do
was get him comfortable with traveling in the car and in tolerating
different environments from the start. This was something I really
appreciated in Ebony, but Ebony was much quieter than Loki. Loki has just
learned he can shriek and bark. Oh joy....

He weighs 3.9 pounds (up .9 pounds from 3 weeks ago) and is cute as the
dickens! He sleeps with me, except for the rare occasions where he
decides he has to do his "wilding" at bedtime, and then he gets crated.
When he is sound asleep he is the *cutest* thing you ever saw, and he is
pretty cute awake too. The stray cat just had kittens and Loki stood
watching them, without moving hardly a muscle for maybe 10 minutes. He
likes chasing the big cats, but they just laugh at him. He likes tv,
hates air blowing on him, is pretty good about telling us he has to go out
and is terrified of the toilet flushing! He LOVES capers and coffee -
neither of which does he get. We offered them to him because he was
demanding them and we thought he'd sniff and refuse. Ha! We're feeding
him Nutro puppy...no vitamins or anything yet. I *think* he knows his
name now. he knows what "No!" means, but often he doesn't care!

So...there you are...

--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:25:20 -0800
From: Jenice Smith <jsmith@bmi.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: new puppy "Loki" update
Message-ID: <35100380.7F6667A5@bmi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Your puppy sounds like mine....I too lost my beloved pet on January 13th and I
now own Angel, she was born on January 1st as well....so we have that in
common. AND, I too am Angel's favorite toy....and the thought you have had
that "you wish he was Ebony"....well, I am often thinking I wish Angel were my
Mandy. I also think that Angel's the cutest when she is sleeping and not in
one of those "puppy frenzies"......I have to keep reminding myself that Angel
is just a puppy and my Mandy was older and calmer. I love this lil pup to
death already and I know that one day she will be just as special to me as
Mandy was. IF ONLY I can make it through this first puppy year!! Angel
sleeps with me each night as well, as she has since the first night I got
her, she was 6 weeks old then and I can see her getting somewhat calmer each
day....but, she is just a pup! AND, pups love to play and nip and play and
nip. She's sleeping now and as I look over to her laying in my bed, I know
one day she truly will be my Angel....until that day, I often think I should
have named her Sparky!! Anyway, I wish us both luck with our pups!!
Kathleen Richards wrote:

> Several people wrote and asked me for an "update" on the new puppy, so I
> thought I'd just send one here. I hope that's ok. I seem to be going up
> and down since Ebony's death. The new puppy is helping, but sometimes I
> do wish he were her - even though I know that's not fair to him.
>
> He is half Pomeranian and half-terrier. After pouring over a bunch of web
> sites we are pretty sure the terrier half is all or mostly Cairn terrier.
> I hope to take some pictures soon. Maybe I can scan them and pictures of
> Ebony for the group here. Anyway, we named him "Loki" - a Norse god of
> mischief. Truly, it fits! He was born Jan. 1, 1998 so he is about 10
> weeks old. He had the worst worms when I got him - tapeworm and
> roundworms. I haven't had an actual puppy puppy (we took the rescue dogs
> when they were about 5 months old) since Ebony and she was 18 when she
> died, so I had forgotten about, um, biting... my hand is so much better
> than *any* of his many toys! he is spoiled... he has three stuffed
> "doughnuts" - his favorites - one for home, one for the car, and one for
> my office at work (where I sneak him in at least three days a week when my
> boss is out). He has a small rubber ball, a bigger rubber ball, a tiny
> Kong, a nylon or some such bone, a "doggie bagel" (a VERY hard bagel made
> from a recipe with dog-safe stuff), a toilet paper roll, lots of bits of
> paper and an empty trash bag box. We carry most of this around with us in
> what amounts to a "doggie-diaperbag". One of the things I wanted to do
> was get him comfortable with traveling in the car and in tolerating
> different environments from the start. This was something I really
> appreciated in Ebony, but Ebony was much quieter than Loki. Loki has just
> learned he can shriek and bark. Oh joy....
>
> He weighs 3.9 pounds (up .9 pounds from 3 weeks ago) and is cute as the
> dickens! He sleeps with me, except for the rare occasions where he
> decides he has to do his "wilding" at bedtime, and then he gets crated.
> When he is sound asleep he is the *cutest* thing you ever saw, and he is
> pretty cute awake too. The stray cat just had kittens and Loki stood
> watching them, without moving hardly a muscle for maybe 10 minutes. He
> likes chasing the big cats, but they just laugh at him. He likes tv,
> hates air blowing on him, is pretty good about telling us he has to go out
> and is terrified of the toilet flushing! He LOVES capers and coffee -
> neither of which does he get. We offered them to him because he was
> demanding them and we thought he'd sniff and refuse. Ha! We're feeding
> him Nutro puppy...no vitamins or anything yet. I *think* he knows his
> name now. he knows what "No!" means, but often he doesn't care!
>
> So...there you are...
>
> --
> kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
> ~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
> There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:25:06 -0500
From: Daniel Klein <dklein@li.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Paw Pads
Message-ID: <350FCB31.14AFA89@li.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Linda and Schonas! My dog is a Dandie and is 6 1/2 yrs. of age. I have
been thru hell and back again over the past few wks. I initially had him to
my vet who wanted to do a "wait see" for 30 days!! I responded "NO WAY",
and got him into the AMC in Manhatan. I have sinced changed vets and he is
now in the Intro stage so to speak. Has been on Lysodren for a littlemore
than a wk. and we had another ACTH test done yesterday. He is very bloated
and overweight. A male Dandie should not be more than 26to 28 lbs. and he
is tipping the scale at 41.9 which makes me nervous. He has been healthy
all of his life and this disease came on suddenly. I am hoping that he is
not one of the few who does not respond to testing.

Btw, his name is Andrew.

Thanks for writing back to me. I am learning a lot from this list.

What kind of dogs do you own?

Patty
L Boyce wrote:

> Hi Patty and Dan....
>
> First of all....welcome!
>
> Licking paws can mean a variety of things. It's best that you ask your
> Vet about it. Heck..my Vet is getting ready to add me to his speed dial
> I've asked him so many questions but he's been absolutely great...if he
> doesn't know..he finds out and gets back to me!
>
> What kind of medication is your dog on? How old is he? Introduce your
> little guy to everyone! We'd love to meet him!
>
> Linda & Schonus

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:11:01 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <9803180911.ZM19630@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Okay, I'll see if I still have a post on the "Colorado Protocol". Basically,
this calls for "routine" annual vaccinations for the first three years, then
annual titers. As long as the level is high enough, there's no reason to
re-vaccincate. This is in response to an increase in the incidences of
autoimmune hemolytic anemia (AIHA) in dogs and cats in the period of 2 to 6
days after the vaccinations.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
The Army, it's not just an adventure,
It's 24 months of bad food.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:23:51 -0600
From: "Janice Glosson" <jglosson@genevaonline.com>
To: <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <199803181526.JAA27685@battleship.genevaonline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My holistic vet recommends vaccinations for the first year--and then only
every 2-3 years after that. He does recommend titers but doesn't feel that
they are absolutely essential unless the dog is being exposed to lots of
other dogs like a show dog or regularly boarded dog. He also says NO
VACCINATIONS for Cushing's dogs (or any dogs with compromised immune
systems or liver problems). And, no vaccinations for dogs over the age of
10. As he stated to me, "We don't vaccinate ourselves every year so why do
we vacciante our dogs yearly?"

He also recommends the daily heartworm pills for all dogs. They are
diethylcarbamazine citrate. My bottle has the brand name of Decacide and
the dosage is 3 mg./pound. He feels that there are a lot less problems
with the daily preventative and cited the example of Collies not being able
to take the monthly pills due to liver damage. Since I give my dogs
vitamin supplements and their meds on a daily basis, it is no problem to
give them the heartworm pills daily. I never seemed to be able to remember
the monthly ones. By the way, the monthly ones are effective for at least
45 days so if you forget, no problem. The daily pills are effective for 48
hours so every other day is o.k., too. They dailies are MUCH cheaper than
monthly. I treat 8 dogs for 6 months for less than the cost of what it was
to treat one with the monthly pill for 6 months.

Janice & Annie

----------
> From: Dillon Pyron <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
> To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
> Subject: Re: vaccinations
> Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 9:11 AM
>
> Okay, I'll see if I still have a post on the "Colorado Protocol".
Basically,
> this calls for "routine" annual vaccinations for the first three years,
then
> annual titers. As long as the level is high enough, there's no reason to
> re-vaccincate. This is in response to an increase in the incidences of
> autoimmune hemolytic anemia (AIHA) in dogs and cats in the period of 2 to
6
> days after the vaccinations.
>
>
> --
> dillon pyron
> dillon.pyron@amd.com
> The Army, it's not just an adventure,
> It's 24 months of bad food.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:48:33 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Flea Control
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980318174833.0073622c@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello everyone, what about the monthly flea liquid that we use on the pups,
I was using "Frontline Top Spot" for dogs, but stopped when we were loading
alot with Sunny, we got scared with all these things going into her system,
does anyone else still use this stuff, I know we need it more in the summer
months than now, but what are we to do when the summer comes? Jackie, Randy,
SUNNY and Saphir

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:54:49 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Flea Control
Message-ID: <9803181154.ZM28381@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Jackie, I've used Torus quite successfully on our yard. It's an IGR and one
application last a year (hmmm, April's coming up :-).

For Ivan, we didn't use anything except soap and water.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
The Army, it's not just an adventure,
It's 24 months of bad food.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:04:29 -0500
From: "jeffbeth@interserv.com" <jeffbeth@interserv.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Generic Anipryl info
Message-ID: <351028CC.3887BD8E@interserv.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sorry that it took so long to get back to you with this information, but here
it is. The generic Anipryl (selegiline hydrochloride) that my vet got for us
was ordered through
The Butler Company
P.O. Box 7153
Dublin, OH 43017-0753
(800) 551-3861

I was told that this generic drug is only available in 5mg tablets and must
be purchased in lots of 60 tablets. My vet charged us $60 for the 60 tablets
that we picked up last week.

Hope this helps.

Beth

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:08:40 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Flea Control
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980318200840.006ef498@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dillon, I do not use anything on the yard, I was talking about Sunny in
general, Sunny does not get a bath too often as she is inside there is no
need. I also noticed that you had changed your sign at the end, I miss the
old one, but I know we have to move on. Thanks. Jackie.

At 11:54 AM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Jackie, I've used Torus quite successfully on our yard. It's an IGR and one
>application last a year (hmmm, April's coming up :-).
>
>For Ivan, we didn't use anything except soap and water.
>
>
>--
>dillon pyron
>dillon.pyron@amd.com
>The Army, it's not just an adventure,
>It's 24 months of bad food.
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:48:13 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Flea Control
Message-ID: <9803181448.ZM9569@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Like you, we basically left well enough alone. Ivan was mostly an inside dog,
and treating the yard with a relatively begnin agent was the best idea.

We also don't use any pesticides or herbicides, as these are now reported to
have long term detrimental effects on dogs.

Thanks for the note on the sig, I just felt it was time. It's been almost 5
weeks, seems like forever and yesterday all at once.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
The Army, it's not just an adventure,
It's 24 months of bad food.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:31:42 -0600
From: Jackie Siniard <siniardj@email.uah.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Flea Control
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980318223142.00718e04@email.uah.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks dillon

At 02:48 PM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Like you, we basically left well enough alone. Ivan was mostly an inside dog,
>and treating the yard with a relatively begnin agent was the best idea.
>
>We also don't use any pesticides or herbicides, as these are now reported to
>have long term detrimental effects on dogs.
>
>Thanks for the note on the sig, I just felt it was time. It's been almost 5
>weeks, seems like forever and yesterday all at once.
>
>
>--
>dillon pyron
>dillon.pyron@amd.com
>The Army, it's not just an adventure,
>It's 24 months of bad food.
>
>

Love doesn't make the world go 'round: love is what makes the ride
worthwhile. - Franklin Jones

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:33:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: why so much Cushings?
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980318151646.5614D-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

My vet was amazed to hear about (and begin to see in his practice) such an
increase (or perhaps it's always been at this level and we are just
getting better at diagnosing it?) of Cushings disease. I have to wonder
if there is an environmental variable contributing to this. I know the
use of cortisone (in creams, eye drops, etc.) has been implicated,
however, is it possible that some other environmental change is also
contributing? I remember there was a big hullabaloo when it was dicovered
that most cat foods did not contain enough taurine (sp?) and the addition
of this kept my 20 year old cat going for 2 more years after his kidneys
began to have problems. What are the chances something similar is going
on with dogs? That is, foods have been made more efficient at providing
nutrition, but are missing or out of balance in some way? Are some of the
other things we routinely do with/for/to our pets contributing? How often
is Cushings seen in cats and are the rates there the same overall as with
dogs?

I am just babbling away. Of course my main concern is that there is
something out there that will put my new pup in danger. If there is any
way I can protect him I certainly will. I will not allow him to be given
cortisone products without an awful lot of justification first. I am
checking into vitamins and so on and have written Nutro (he eats Nutro
Puppy) for all sorts of specifications. I will be asking about titers for
vaccinations (he is still getting his puppy vaccinations every three weeks
right now). I will forgo giving him heartworm meds at all unless a) we
are going to a heartworm area, or b) our area becomes "infested." As a
note, I plan on getting him neutered at 6 mos. (that's when the vet said
it was best) and have the microchip implanted at the same time (they do it
intramuscular now, not just under the skin because...um...people were
removing the under the skin ones when pets were stolen...*sigh*...so says
the vet.)

We have been taking the new puppy to the emergency vet instead of our old
vet. The emergency vet is where Ebony died and I cry or get teary eyed
every time we go in, but I can't face the vet who cared for her for most
of those 18 years yet. Funny, I haven't even talked to him since he went
on vacation right before she died. I know I need to, but I just can't
right now. I hope he's not hurt that we took the puppy to the other vets
to start. I plan on taking the puppy to the old vet, but not until I can
face him. ~sigh~

Sorry this was so long...thanks for listening!

--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:03:43 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Paw Pads
Message-ID: <351052CF.8976CD3@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Patty.....

Great place, AMC! I've heard nothing but high regards for that place up
here where I live. I'm up in the Catskills and fortunately for Schonus
& me we have a great Vet!

I forgot to mention to you that before Schonus was diagnosed he also was
licking the top of his front paws TERRIBLY! In fact both of his front
paws were bare, no hair and he use to sneak off and hide to lick. At
times, blood would be all over the place. We were told at first, before
he was diagnosed, that it was "lick spots".."hot spots" and caused by
stress. Then my Vet thought it was his allergies! BUT since he's been
on Lysodren, you can't even tell the spots were there. His hair grew in
and covered everything up.

I know exactly what you mean about the weight gain!! Schonus got up to
102 pounds...suppose to weigh 85 pounds and currently is sporting 90
pounds...again, this all happened after he'd been on Lysodren. Only
problem I'm having now is inbetween his toes and pads...raw! He's been
on antibiotics and "paw" soaks in Domeboro solution followed by
Bactroderm but nothing seems to help. My Vet did a C&S and we're
awaiting results.

I first notice something was "wrong" with Schonus in January 1997....I
think Cushing's was the last thing on my Vet's mind. We did a gazillion
tests on him and FINALLY I decided it was time for me to "speak" for
Schonus. My Vet had absolutely no experience with Cushing's and after a
couple of months "waiting", we were finally referred to Cornell in
June! Talk about waiting!! From Jan - Jun, he just kept getting bigger
and bigger and I spent many a night crying for him. Finally I said
enough! It's amazing what can get accomplished when you become
persistent!!! But my Vet has been excellent! If he doesn't know
something..he finds out and gets back to me...cuz he knows if he doesn't
call me....I'm on the phone to him!!

BTW...Schonus is a Black Lab/Golden Retriever. He has Black Lab
markings and one of these days he'll have his Golden Retriever hair
length back!! He turned 6 in December.

Good luck with AMC!! Keeping my fingers crossed for Andrew!

Linda & Schonus

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:10:51 -0400
From: L Boyce <lboyce@warwick.net>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Vaccinations
Message-ID: <3510547B.DD0DD6C2@warwick.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Can someone please help me understand something....Why do you not
vaccinate your dog.....i.e., distemper/rabies? I understand that only a
titer test is done but what if the level is low?? Then what?

Schonus is scheduled for his annual heartworm test and distemper shot
soon. Are there side effects from distemper shots because of his
Cushing's? I can't seem to find any info on heartworm as which it
should be ... daily or monthly? If they don't get the
vaccinations...and something happens I would never forgive myself....I'm
confused?

Linda

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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:49:04 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: why so much Cushings?
Message-ID: <35106B67.EB466CF4@cynet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In line with this thread (the relationship of Cushings and steroid
treatment) I recently read up quite a bit on human Cushings because my
doctor had me tested (she didn't know anything about Bo, her concern was
motivated by some symptoms I'd been having, including weight gain and
blood pressure that fluctuated between high and moderate - which she
said was typical of Cushings) It turned out that I do not have it, but I
assure you I nearly fell over when she suggsted the test.

Anyway, what my reading showed was that in humans, the use of steroids
to treat other conditions is listed as a third precipitating factor for
Cushings, right up there with the pituitary and adrenal dependent
causes. This is based on info from a web page
http://www.medhelp.org/www/nadf4.htm, as well as related pages. The info
suggests that in some cases, doctors may have to way the dangers posed
by Cushings against the danger posed by the condition that is being
treated by steroids. I probably should have passed this info along
sooner, but I wanted to wait for the results of my tests to come back.
Judy

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:49:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Kathleen Richards <krichard@acme.csusb.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vaccinations
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980318164623.9714A-100000@acme.csusb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I will jump in here and respond. I have read here that the monthly
heartworm pills are simply too toxic for Cushings pets and that the daily
pills are better tolerated. From what I have been reading it seems that
the monthly pills may be too toxic in general for a wide variety of pets.

As for the vaccinations, my understanding is that AFTER the puppy series
you can have a titer run and if it is high enough you can forgo the shots.
If the titer is too low, you revaccinate. Here in CA I have no choice
(and wouldn't risk it anyway, even with titering) but to keep the rabies
vaccinations current. The County will not allow me to keep an
unvaccinated dog, even if he has a high titer.

'Hope that helps ...

--
kathleen richards krichard@acme.csusb.edu
~Someday - we'll live like horses, free rein from your old iron fences.
There's more ways than one to regain your senses.~ B.Taupin/E.John

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:29:05 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: why so much Cushings?
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980318192905.0071a11c@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:33 PM 3/18/98 -0800, Kathleen Richards wrote:
>I have to wonder
>if there is an environmental variable contributing to this. I know the
>use of cortisone (in creams, eye drops, etc.) has been implicated,
>however, is it possible that some other environmental change is also
>contributing?

My little-bit-of-knowledge-is-a-dangerous-thing guess is that the increase
in the number of recognized cases of Cushing's is based on at least two
things:

1) For many dogs, Cushing's occurs in elderly dogs and looks a lot like old
age; perhaps traditionally owners and vets have just accepted what appeared
to be the cycle of life. Lately, however, we seem to have much higher
expectations on modern medicine and therefore seek out (and find) the true
source of the problem.

2) I've got to believe that the second reason is the use of steroids. They
are such wonder drugs in terms of resolving symptoms, but my anecdotal
knowledge and experience leads me to believe that there has to be a link
between long-term use and the later development of Cushing's.

Just my thoughts....

>...but I can't face the vet who cared for her for most
>of those 18 years yet. Funny, I haven't even talked to him since he went
>on vacation right before she died. I know I need to, but I just can't
>right now. I hope he's not hurt that we took the puppy to the other vets
>to start. I plan on taking the puppy to the old vet, but not until I can
>face him.

Oh Kathleen, I recognize that uncomfortable feeling, and for me, it's hard
to explain exactly where it comes from. Figuring out what's keeping you
from being able to face the old vet might help. I'm just speculating from
my own perspective, so forgive me if I'm completely off the mark, but I'll
throw out some possibilities: Is part of the difficulty in facing the old
vet (isn't that flattering ;-)....) the fact that you have to tell him
about your loss? Personally, I just hate having to break that news to
someone who hasn't yet heard! It's so very painful! I can imagine your
old vet's probably going to have a hard time with Ebony's passing, too.
Her death really means the end of an era for your relationship with the old
vet, but it doesn't preclude a new era. I can imagine if I were in your
position, I might feel as if the old vet might think less of me for having
a new pet so soon after losing Ebony. I can understand why one might feel
that way (I felt it after losing my Littlest kitty and adopting demon-spawn
Calvin only a few weeks after), but if it's there, PUT THAT NOTION OUT OF
YOUR HEAD! I think you honor Ebony's memory by opening your heart up to
little Loki who so needed you! Rather than speculating on and on, maybe
it's better if you see if you can explain to us where you're coming from
and maybe we can help make the step easier.

Finally, I think I'm going to send all of my pets to live with you
Kathleen. Your cat lived to 20 and Ebony lived to 18? That's amazing!
You must be the world's best mommy!

Warmly,

Leslie

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:39:31 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Vaccinations
Message-ID: <9803190939.ZM4332@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

There is some concern, particularly in older dogs and "immune comprimised"
dogs, that vaccinations may provoke an auto immune response. Talk with your
vet about this concern. In Tejas, we have no choice on the rabies, but I opted
to skip the other shots for Ivan, as he had little exposure.

If the titer is low, you'll probably want to vaccinate, but I don't think the
danger would be as high, since it's the high titer that supposedly casuses the
response. Is our vet still here? Comments? (Still trying to find my dispatch
from Colorado).

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
The Army, it's not just an adventure,
It's 24 months of bad food.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:16:06 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: why so much Cushings?
Message-ID: <9803191016.ZM6252@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

This is from a presentation I did a few weeks ago to Corgi-L on Geriatric Dogs:

Joints. This has almost been talked to death here, but it can't be
stressed enough. As much as they love to, our little darlings aren't
built for some of the fun they take part in. Agility is designed so
that they (presumably) won't get hurt. But that isn't the same as
jumping off the back of a couch. Didn't hurt the 2 year old? Ask her
again when she's 12. And don't forget that joints means more than
hips and elbows. I can't say for certain, but many who know more than
I think that Corgi's (in particular, Pems) are at some risk for back
problems.

Traditional treatment for joint injuries was rest and 'roids. Now
it's rest and Rimadyl. For many dogs, this looks like a very
beneficial drug. Still fairly new on the market, but showing great
results.

Notice the comment on treatment. A dog that recieved this handling 7-8 years
ago (when steroids were still the only real option) might only now be showing
symptoms.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
The Army, it's not just an adventure,
It's 24 months of bad food.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:06:59 -0500
From: "jeffbeth@interserv.com" <jeffbeth@interserv.com>
To: "cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu" <cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Generic Anipryl Info
Message-ID: <351150B3.B18FE4A9@interserv.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

NOTE: I thought that this message was sent yesterday but I never received it
from the listserv. I am reposting it just to make sure that you get the
attached info. If this is a duplicate message, I apologize.
************************************************************

Sorry that it took so long to get back to you with this information, but here

it is. The generic Anipryl (selegiline hydrochloride) that my vet got for us

was ordered through
The Butler Company
P.O. Box 7153
Dublin, OH 43017-0753
(800) 551-3861

I was told that this generic drug is only available in 5mg tablets and must
be purchased in lots of 60 tablets. My vet charged us $60 for the 60 tablets

that we picked up last week.

Hope this helps.

Beth

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:13:07 -0700
From: floyd@zianet.com
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: different drug to treat cushings
Message-ID: <35118A63.8D3@zianet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

yesterday our vet mentioned that there is another drug being used to
treat cushings in dogs. its name is "ketoconicole" and is sold under
the brand name of "Nizoral". he said it works on the adrenals but does
not destroy them like lysodren. of course, there are some side effects,
but apparently not as drastic as lysodren. major disadvantage is that
it is fairly expensive, but he wasn't sure of cost.

this was the first i had heard of this drug and am curious if any of
you have heard of it or used it.

cybil is having a high dose meth test tommorrow to see what that tells
us. she has become so lethargic the last week or so. i guess this is
one of the symptoms of cushings, but am not sure. her water intake has
declined as has her appetite. she is not on any medication right now
and eats a natural diet. she has not trouble eating that so far, but
does not beg for everything we eat like she used to. plan to have the
vet do a CBC on her tommorrow also, hopefully to rule out anything
additional.

would appreciate any comments, etc., for the group re the above.
thanks.

patti & cybil

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:27:00 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: different drug to treat cushings
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980319152700.0071cd74@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have an article about ketoconicole floating around somewhere....as soon
as I'm able to dig it out, I'll transcribe and post it to the list or to
the web page.

Our vet didn't want to use it with Melissa because he said it was much
less effective than Lysodren. But, for those who have tried Lysodren and
Anipryl without results, maybe keotconicole is worth a try!

-Leslie

At 02:13 PM 3/19/98 -0700, floyd@zianet.com wrote:
>yesterday our vet mentioned that there is another drug being used to
>treat cushings in dogs. its name is "ketoconicole" and is sold under
>the brand name of "Nizoral". he said it works on the adrenals but does
>not destroy them like lysodren.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:02:58 -0600
From: "Dillon Pyron" <dillon.pyron@amd.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: different drug to treat cushings
Message-ID: <9803191602.ZM24305@dvorak.amd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Nizoral is still considered "experimental", although it is available for other
things. It is, shall we say, pricey. Dr. Smith felt that Lysodren was
working, so we stayed with that route.

--
dillon pyron
dillon.pyron@amd.com
The Army, it's not just an adventure,
It's 24 months of bad food.

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:13:11 -0500
From: "jeffbeth@interserv.com" <jeffbeth@interserv.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Anipryl
Message-ID: <35129597.7C400F@interserv.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have tried to post this twice in the last couple of days but I haven't
received it from the listserv either time. This time I am doing it as a
reply rather than an original post- I hope that this helps (maybe I have the
address wrong in my address book). If this message is a duplicate, I
apologize, I just wanted to make sure that I passed this info along.
****************************************************************

Sorry that it took so long to get back to you with this information, but here

it is. The generic Anipryl (selegiline hydrochloride) that my vet got for us

was ordered through
The Butler Company
P.O. Box 7153
Dublin, OH 43017-0753
(800) 551-3861

I was told that this generic drug is only available in 5mg tablets and must
be purchased in lots of 60 tablets. My vet charged us $60 for the 60 tablets

that we picked up last week.

Hope this helps.

Beth

Dillon Pyron wrote:

> Segeline hydrochloride or l-deprinyl
>
> --
> dillon pyron
> dillon.pyron@amd.com
> Ivan Oct 12, 1983 - Feb 14, 1998
> Fire in his eyes, a roar in his heart

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 18:18:36 -0800
From: kaykay2@ix.netcom.com
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Introduction
Message-ID: <351474FC.5DD@ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi everyone,

By way of introduction, I'm Ripley and I have 2 Shar-peis. The older
one, Gucci, is a 12 year old female who was diagnosed with Cushings in
Oct. 97. She was put on Anapryl at that time and the first four months
were great. Then she started to be very hyper again. She will pace, pant
and whine for hours on end. (Last weekend it was 28 hours straight). Our
vet retested her and her levels haven't changed, so we're trying
diazapam to try and relax her. She tolerates it well but I'm almost a
prisoner in my house because she gets extremely aggitated when I leave
her. She can't be confined to the house because of some treatment she
had before I owned her (I got her when she was 5). So we have a pet door
she uses to go into the fenced in yard. Well, lateley when I leave she
has taught herself how to climb the fence and she wanders the
neighborhood looking for me. My neighbors have my pager number and they
call if they see her. She has become a real neighborhood project.

I guess what I was wondering was if any other anapryl users have
experienced anything similar. Other than her mental state, Gucci's in
good shape. Sorry to ramble on so, but trying to explain this to someone
who's not experienced it is futile. This seems like a very compassionate
and helpful group.

P.S. Cole, my other dog, is 16 months old is in great health!

Thanks, Ripley

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 18:59:20 -0600
From: Leslie Lawson <lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980321185920.00725160@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Ripley-

I just happen to be working tonight (at work at 7 p.m. on a Saturday--what
a geek!) and got your message. Welcome to the group.

Sounds like you have your hands full with Gucci. I have no personal
experience with Anipryl, but several others in the group have used it with
their pups. I recall someone mentioning that it seems to have made her dog
even more clever than usual!

Again, welcome, and hugs to Gucci and Cole,

Leslie

At 06:18 PM 3/21/98 -0800, kaykay2@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>By way of introduction, I'm Ripley and I have 2 Shar-peis. The older
>one, Gucci, is a 12 year old female who was diagnosed with Cushings in
>Oct. 97.
<snip>

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:09:26 +0000
From: Tom White <trw@virginia.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Maggie
Message-ID: <591B92EC3@law1.law.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dear Lia:

One of the symptoms of Cushings is panting. When Clea stopped eating (and
clearly had Cushings), we searched for a better, more healthy diet. In
Maggie's case, if she is not eating, your vet might be able to help you with
advice on her diet. Because Clea will not eat the food she needs to eat, we
have had to use a syringe to supplement the food she likes. This may be a
possibility in Maggie's case also.

You mentioned that your mom forwarded to you a list of pain signs in dogs.
"Yes," we would love to see it posted here.

Thanks for your nice note. Our prayers and blessings to Maggie, and our
wishes of good luck to you on your final exams. Tom & Maria.
Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:54:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
To: CUSHINGS-PETS@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Bloat
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980322195402.12977A-100000@bradley.bradley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

An enlarged stomach/liver area, noticeably so.

jk@bradley.bradley.edu

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Tom White wrote:

> Jenny--
>
> What is "bloat"?
>
> Thanks.
> Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
> E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu
>

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:25:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980322202230.12977G-100000@bradley.bradley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

By "fresh foods" do you mean raw meat/bones? Are you concerned about
salmonella, etc., if so? I understand such a diet may be harmful to
Cushings dogs, as their immune systems are compromised (albeit I do give
Sweets a "raw" soup bone now and then, but all she does is bury and
re-bury it).

jk@bradley.bradley.edu

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Sandy Hempe wrote:

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:38:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Anipryl after 3 days
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980322202558.12977H-100000@bradley.bradley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Wellll her new vet thinks she's in pretty good shape, at the start of
Cushings. It's pretty difficult to tell a vet who's been there since
babyhood good-bye, but I did it. Her new vet is great, lots of backround
with Cushings. He favors Lysodern but since she's doing OK on the Anipryl
he says to stay with it for the time being. At least there are no harmful
side effects at this time; she seems to have out-ridden the worse. I am
pleased, because when she needs to go on the Lysodern I know we have an
experienced vet to lead us through the loading ups-and-downs.

She's now on a diet; needs to lose five pounds for greater mobility. I'm
weening her back onto kibble (R/D). Also added vitamin B12 and ginseng to
her daily intake. I am taking the new vet print-outs from here, just to
make sure he is aware and up-to-date!

I am also happy that he foresees monitoring her enzymes/health every three
weeks, which is sort of what I thought she might need. NOT to mention my
pleasure when all the receptionists complimented her on her beauty, as the
previous vet's receptionist was a "cat" person who typically ignored
Sweetie! It did help that Sweets did a simply gorgeous "stay" for over ten
minutes while I roamed about...I think this el-dopamine with the Aprenyl
is rather intriguing...the other night Sweetie heard someone walking
outside the house from a block away!

jk@bradley.bradley.edu

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, L Boyce wrote:

> Jenny.....
>
> You should have called your Vet YESTERDAY!!
>
> Linda
>
>

----__ListProc__NextPart____CUSHINGS-PETS__digest_26

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:52:13 -0600
From: Sandy Hempe <dogdazed@sprintmail.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <3515CE5D.F28@sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jenny Kellstedt wrote:
>
> By "fresh foods" do you mean raw meat/bones? Are you concerned about
> salmonella, etc., if so? I understand such a diet may be harmful to
> Cushings dogs, as their immune systems are compromised >

Well, actually that was going to be my next question to the list. My
book says raw is best, best nutrition that way, but I've been wondering
myself if that's safe. I boiled his eggs yesterday instead of giving
them to him raw. I'd hate for him to have to battle a bout of
salmonella at this point.
Any thoughts, anyone?

Sandy and Vincent

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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:39:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Jenny Kellstedt <jk@bradley.bradley.edu>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980322213702.15870B-100000@bradley.bradley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sweetie's only been on anipryl for three-going-on-four-weeks now, but I
have noticed the SAME THING! Tibetan Terriers tend to be rather pleasantly
aloof, but lately she follows me everywhere. At night she curls right up
against my leg and practically crowds me off the bed. And she won't
anything unless I fix it.

Jenny & Sweetie/TT
jk@bradley.bradley.edu

On Sat, 21 Mar 1998 kaykay2@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> By way of introduction, I'm Ripley and I have 2 Shar-peis. The older
> one, Gucci, is a 12 year old female who was diagnosed with Cushings in
> Oct. 97. She was put on Anapryl at that time and the first four months
> were great. Then she started to be very hyper again. She will pace, pant
> and whine for hours on end. (Last weekend it was 28 hours straight). Our
> vet retested her and her levels haven't changed, so we're trying
> diazapam to try and relax her. She tolerates it well but I'm almost a
> prisoner in my house because she gets extremely aggitated when I leave
> her. She can't be confined to the house because of some treatment she
> had before I owned her (I got her when she was 5). So we have a pet door
> she uses to go into the fenced in yard. Well, lateley when I leave she
> has taught herself how to climb the fence and she wanders the
> neighborhood looking for me. My neighbors have my pager number and they
> call if they see her. She has become a real neighborhood project.
>
> I guess what I was wondering was if any other anapryl users have
> experienced anything similar. Other than her mental state, Gucci's in
> good shape. Sorry to ramble on so, but trying to explain this to someone
> who's not experienced it is futile. This seems like a very compassionate
> and helpful group.
>
> P.S. Cole, my other dog, is 16 months old is in great health!
>
> Thanks, Ripley
>

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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:53:58 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: vaccinations
Message-ID: <3515DCD6.CFA50631@erols.com>
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by fresh foods I am refering to raw veggies such as apples, carrots, cabbage,
brocklee, banana, and cooked freah veggies such as collards, kale, etc.

I forgot to mention that Vit C will also help to acidify the urine and thus
reduce the chances of urinary tract infection.

my big think is to stay away from comercial dog food. . . . . .check out this
url:

http://www.api4animals.org/petfood.htm

good luck, H Bliley

Jenny Kellstedt wrote:

> By "fresh foods" do you mean raw meat/bones? Are you concerned about
> salmonella, etc., if so? I understand such a diet may be harmful to
> Cushings dogs, as their immune systems are compromised (albeit I do give
> Sweets a "raw" soup bone now and then, but all she does is bury and
> re-bury it).
>
> jk@bradley.bradley.edu
>
> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Sandy Hempe wrote:
>
> > HD Bliley wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Guys--the daily pills are less toxic, thus the preference.
> >
> > I talked to my vets yesterday (the one at the veterinary teaching
> > hospital who diagnosed Vincent and my new local vet) about vaccinations
> > and heartworm pills.
> >
> > The vet at the hospital wasn't too concerned about the vaccinations, but
> > said I should give Vince the once-a-month heartworm pills, as they were
> > *less* toxic than the daily.
> >
> > The local vet (who calls herself a holistic vet) had the same opinion
> > about the heartworm pills, but said Vince ought to get his shots one at
> > a time instead of all together.
> >
> > So much information out there. I just don't know what to believe.
> >
> > I am supplementing Vincent's kibble now with either eggs, ground turkey
> > or cottage cheese and a mixture of nutritional yeast, lecithin granules,
> > bonemeal, kelp powder, and vitamins A, C, and E. (This is all from "Dr.
> > Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats"). After the
> > kibble is gone I plan to move him to an all fresh foods diet. I don't
> > know if it's helping, but Vince loves it!
> >
> > Oh yeah, my cat is getting tested for Cushing's in a couple of weeks.
> > She's having some general health problems (bad teeth, frequent
> > urination, ear problems). Thyroid tests came out normal. And come to
> > find out the eye drops she's been on daily for the past eight years for
> > Pannus are steroids. Whoopee.
> >
> > Take care, all.
> >
> > Sandy and Vincent
> >

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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:00:48 -0500
From: HD Bliley <hbliley@erols.com>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Bloat
Message-ID: <3515DE70.163F5A88@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Actually bloat is a term that refers to a very serious condition
involving a twisting of the dogs internals so that they kind of
"strangle" to death--it happens quickly and often after physical
exertion especially if the dog has recently eaten or taken in a large
quantity of water.
The possibility of bloat is one reason that owners of larger breeds
recommend feeding the dog twice daily--it keeps the stomach from
expanding too much.

HBliley

Jenny Kellstedt wrote:

> An enlarged stomach/liver area, noticeably so.
>
> jk@bradley.bradley.edu
>
> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Tom White wrote:
>
> > Jenny--
> >
> > What is "bloat"?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
> > E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu
> >

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<HTML>
Actually bloat is a term that refers to a very serious condition
involving a twisting of the dogs internals so that they kind of "strangle"
to death--it happens quickly and often after physical exertion especially
if the dog has recently eaten or taken in a large quantity of water.
 The possibility of bloat is one reason that owners of larger breeds
recommend feeding the dog twice daily--it keeps the stomach from expanding
too much.

HBliley

Jenny Kellstedt wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>An enlarged stomach/liver area, noticeably so.

jk@bradley.bradley.edu

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Tom White wrote:

> Jenny--
 >
 > What is "bloat"?
 >
 > Thanks.
 > Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
 > E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu
 ></BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:23:20 -0500
From: Judy Antipin Hartheimer <jhart@cynet.net>
To: cushings-pets@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Bloat
Message-ID: <3515E3B5.27CD3820@cynet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

An enlarged stomach/liver area, noticeably so.

jk@bradley.bradley.edu

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Tom White wrote:

> Jenny--
>
> What is "bloat"?
>
> Thanks.
> Tom, Maria and Clea, Timmy and Little Rosti
> E-mail us at trw@virginia.edu
>

Would like to add to Jenny's reply, as I have had a great deal of
experience with this. Bloat is actually a true medical emergency that
requires immediate veterinary intervention to save the dog's life. There
is a great deal of debate as to cause, large breeds are much more prone
to it, and it does seem to have some hereditary components. The problem
because, usually , shortly after a dog has eaten. There are several
different manifestations, the most serious of which involves "gastric
torsion,'' where the stomach rotates, I believe, cutting off its natural
exit points, and the dog stomach begins to rapidly expand or bloat, due
to the fermenting of its contents and the resulting gas. If the stomach
hasn't completely rotated, sometimes they can pass a tube down the dog's
throat so that the contents can be forced up. Often it requires
emergency surgery, and in years past, I remember hearing of cases where
vets punctured a hole in the stomach from the outside, to allow the gas
to escape. The life threat comes from the continued expansion of the
stomach to the point where it begins to crush other internal organs,
such as the heart and lungs. I'm not sure where treatment of repeated
episodes of bloat is at today. They used to sew or staple some dogs'
stomachs (I don't recall to where) to keep them from rotating

A long time ago (mid 1970s) I had a female Irish Setter named Shane -
she was the first dog I owned as an adult. At about age 8 she began
experiencing repeated episodes of bloat. I learned to watch for the
signs and how to "tube" her myself. At age 11, she underwent emergency
surgery for bloat from which she never fully recovered. One of the most
painful episodes of my life was holding her in my arms the night she
died. I guess she will be the first to greet me at the Rainbow Bridge!

Judy

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